|Beautiful Macedonian Sun|
|mnik|| This Macedonian Sun is found in Monastry in Macedonia, I do not give the link, because they want to bann all links with Macedonian stuff.
I experienced difficulties to find this link, since it was on serb server, and they banned it ofcourse, so I just post the Pictures.
if anybody else have such a pictures please poste it, but not those from historyofmacedonia since I have them already.
|dejan||lele! kako ne sum znael za ova sve! ni nekoj sajt nema......barem historyofmacedonia.com da ima nesto za ovie crkvi! interesno mnogu! sakam da znam kolku crkvi vo grcka ili bugarija imat ili imale makedonsko sonce!|
|dejan||However logical that may all sound, it doesn't. The Macedonian Empire was vast, and it covered most of Bulgaria, no surprise that type of comment coming from a Bulgarian (the archieologist), claiming that the Macedonian Sun was firstly Thracian...|
|mnik||and here is an icon where you find the inscription of the author who drawed it, check it out how did he called him! [img]http://www.macedonia-info.org/history/Otomanski_period/Ikona_Gavril_Atanasov_.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.macedonia-info.org/history/Otomanski_period/Ikonopisec_Gavril_Atanasov_Makedonec_1897.jpg[/img] well well, Macedonec od selo Berovo!!![:D] I do not see anywhere Bulg???[8D] keep it up!|
|Great_Macedonian||Bravo mnik, keep up the good work.|
|mnik||here is the map where you see macedonia with tracia and epirus, on the next year they disapear. Macedonia was know as macedonia under turks, you can see that on different maps. [img]http://www.nepokor.org/Nepokor/sliki/Balkan_modifications_1914a.jpg[/img]|
|dejan||mnogu interesni sliki!! ne sum znael za toa vo toj manastir. ej kade e manastirot?? berovo? sto bese toa za nekoj srbski sajt??? ima li drugi crkvi vo makedonija, so sonceto?|
|n/a||siguren sam deka ima;)|
quote:Ima ima definitvno. Vo ovoj berovskiov sum bil, a gi ima i na drugommesto, sonceto ili delovi od nego, predse kracite kako ornamenti. Samo losoto e vo toa sto kaj nas sliki na internet tesko moze da se najdat zasto nema koj da gi stavi, nikoj ne se grizi takvi raboti da se promoviraat pred lugeto i pred svetot [:(]
|dejan||pa jakov, ti si toj covek koj treba da se grizi[:D] dali znaete nesto za toj manastir?|
quote:They did not dissapear, they will always exist :) as georaphical aras :) Post the images on Bulgarian server. We will keep it very well :) like our own ;) The images are very interesting: Македонецъ отъ соло Берово - Old Bulgarian Македонец от село Берово - Bulgarian Македонец од село Берово - Macedonian What is that letter "ъ"? Why it's "отъ" and not "од"? Why the old "Macedonian" churches are inscripted in Old Bulgarian language? Of cource I agree that he is Macedonian :)
|dejan||hey stan, i missed you a lot:((( why did you leave!:(|
|Jakov||Stan-cce da ti objasnam malku okolu istorijata na makedonskiot jazik. VO 1945 godina, makedonskiot naroden jazik, konecno e kodificiran.Znaci dobil pravopis i azbuka koja e kodificirana, da receme ozakoneta i spored nea se raboti i se pisuva na makedonski literaturen jazik. Takva kodifikacija izvrsile site narodi vo odreden period na razvojot an svojot jazik. Osven toa jazikot kako ziva materija se menuva, trpi i dava vlijanie na drugi, taka da i ona e menlivo. Znaci crkvite i manastirite ili lugeto koi gi gradele vo minatoto se sluzele so makedonskiot jazik koj ne bil kodificiran(nemal svoja utvrdena azbuka i nemas utvdreni-zapisani normi) si imal nepisani t.n obicajni normi na koristenje. Prosto neli.|
quote::) Is it a rhetorical question? :)
|Strelec||stan, имаш коментар на тоа што ти го напиша Јаков? Или не е ништо од бугарска ’литература’, па и не вреди да се чита?|
quote:Yes, we all know about the Koneski fabrications. "Some" people say the this is actually the creation of Macedonian nation in 1945. We also know what did he has done. Change the typical Bulgarian letters with Serbian converted "я" -> ja, removed "ъ" and many others. See some letters in "Macedonian" on the old books, churches, monuments (This who left after the Serbian deeds). Blaje Koneski studied in Sofia University in Bulgaria as Blagoj Konev :) Koneski's alphabet is variant of Serbian one. With letters as љ and њ and the letters ј and џ. As in Serbian there is: ђ and ћ -> ѓ and ќ. And instead of "ъ" - apostrophe, to be different than Bulgarian. You know that story about the ear, dont you? Also take a look again in old "Macedonian" wrintings and you'll see words that are currently used in present Bulgarian, but not in present Macedonian - replaced mainly by Serbian words. See that "Macedonian" seals: [url]http://www.macedoniainfo.com/seals_macedonia.htm[/url] Cute, aren't they? :) The reasons about that language are simple. From 1912 to 1941 in the schools in Vardar Macedonia (excluding 1915 – 1918 and 1941 – 1944) the pupils did not have Bulgarian language as subject, but Serbian. Also since 1945 - Macedonian... So influenced by the Serbians the language has changed of course. So many years Of course you can put a flower on Tito's monument for that great creation :) One my friend from Macedonia told me that the Bulgarian language is "village" language because similar language is spoken in the villages :) Why? Think about that.
|stan||See this table written in the "Macedonian", the same as on the posted image: [img]http://www.macedoniainfo.com/SchoolsTeachersStudents1.jpg[/img]|
|Christian||ajdeeeee odma propaganda se mava|
|toni_a||bukvata "я" e cista glupost.sekoj moze da vidi deka e od dva zvuka i ne sekogas tie dva zvuka se upotrebuvaat zaedno.isto i "щ"... posto ste tolku pismeni gledam deka si ja pogodil temava,a za vasi nelogicni prevodi ne samo od makedonski, a i od drugi jazici...(Блеър?Шифър?Лиъм?Робърт [:D] [xx(]Blair;Schiffer;Liam;Robert) katastrofa->nepismenost![:0] ne samo sto neznaete bukvite da gi prevedete nego i smislata ne ja razbirate! licno jas "ъъъъъ" samo vo "wc" koristam i negledam potreba da go zapisuvam...,od opsta kultura. na vas znaeme do kade vi e kulturata.... sega odi na bugarski forum i tamu da se olesnuvas i "ъъъъ-kash"|
|Jakov||Za nasite gosti, edno malo predupreduvanje i potsetuvanje deka tema na muabet ovde ne e bugarskiot literaturen jazik i pravopis, nego nesto sosoema drugo. Ova e vovdeot vo temata koj go ostavi MNIK "This Macedonian Sun is found in Monastry in Macedonia, I do not give the link, because they want to bann all links with Macedonian stuff. I experienced difficulties to find this link, since it was on serb server, and they banned it ofcourse, so I just post the Pictures. if anybody else have such a pictures please poste it, but not those from historyofmacedonia since I have them already." Ke ve zamolam da se pridrzuvate do nego. VO sprotivno site postovi koi ke se odnesuvaat na nesto von temata ke gi editiram. Za ostanatite clenovi, vazi istoto. Temi za jazikot moze da otovrame i da diskutirame an literatura ili na opsto.|
|Duhot na Vovata||Jakove, me nasmeja. za nasive gosti. Obicam ve Makedoncinja :):):) Vidite koristam bugarskoto "obicam" koe ima samo konotacija na "love". Da ne stane greska. Posto koga kazeme deka ve sakame vie razbirate "da ve zememe". Muabet da stava :).|
|DJ_SHEMA||Koga kje vlezete vo Sv Kliment crkvata vo Ohrid, kje vidite tepih. Neka vi go krenat tepihot da vidite shto ima. Odma e toa, chim kje vlezete vo crkvata.|
quote:I jas ve "obicam", ama ako prodolzime so cuvstvata edni kon drugi ke ne prefrlat na http://forums.vmacedonia.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=40 Zatoa da si se vratime na ona pogore. [;)]
quote:ova e od eden makedonec koj sega zivee vo srbskiot del od makedonija, neli malo parche ama ima i tam nashi lugje, i toj tvrdi deka Gavril Atanasov mu e pra dedo. bidejki e vo srbija prvinta sajtot go stavil na srbski server, i shto ke se sluchi: ja najdov adresata koja vodeshe do srbskiot sajt, klikam na neja, i mi izlava poraka deka adresata ne e veke na toj sajt bidejki sodrzinata e uvredliva [:D] nomralno deka e uvredliva, koga ne im odgovara, neli spored niv nie sme srbi[xx(] kako i da e covekot si go stavil sajtot na drugo mesto, taka da sega se e vo red. ama se plasham deka grcite, kako i bugarive ovde, samo dovagjaat da gi spiunirat linkovite koji gi najdeme i da gi stopiraat na bilo koj nachin. ama sega jas se kopirav, i ke go stavam i na drug sajt, za sekoj sluchaj neli[:D] back up e back up[8D] inache ova e manastirot vo razlovci, barem spored covekov, neli od razlovechkoto vostanije[:D]koje definitivno ne bilo Bugarsko kako shto se gleda[:D] I love it[:p]
quote:first of all, the church inscription are not in old bulgarian language, since they are writen in kirilic, which is not bulgarian, but OldMacedonian and second, the today bulg is modifyed Cyrilic exacrly as modern Macedonian, but the bulgs were lucky because Russia had advantage to protect it, so they became independant earlier, so they could code their alphabet first at 1870 or so, earlier than the macedonians. and that the Bulg was protected from the Russia, shows also the fact that the Macedonian leader Berovski from the Razlovci uprising was not even left to the Russian Tsar, to ask for support for his uprising. this all is in the Macedonian Knot book, where also stands the hole passus from the German Russian Files about the Berovski and so. so that Berovski was not left to the Russ Tsar to ask for support for his uprising, shows only one, that Russia wanted to secrify Macedonia in their own interests, to make Bulg independant, so it has garantie to come up to the Black see,following Berovski was not Bulg, cause Bulgarian uprisings were always supported from Russia.
quote:DJ_SHEMA ne znam dali imash i slika od znameto na podot vo Sv Kliment, i jas imam slushnato, ama ne najdov nikakva slika!
|mnik||I forgot to add the largest image where one can easy see what is the writing on the icon here is it: http://www.macedonia-info.org/history/Otomanski_period/Ikonopisec_Gavril_Atanasov_od_selo_Berovo_Malesh_Makedonec_1897.jpg|
quote:So, as far as I understood "Македонецъ отъ сeло Берово" is in "Old Macedonian" language. OK. Then Strelec will have allow me to write my postings in "Old Macedonian" ? Strange, but I perfectly understand and write in "Old Macedonian", but I undertand well(not perfectly) and can't write in "Present Macedonian language". How could one "Tatar" understand and can write perfectly "Old Macedonian"? :) Can you show me the alphabet in which that "Old Macedonian"("Македонецъ отъ сeло Берово") writing has been writen?!? I want answer to that question. The letter "ъ" exists in the following Slavic languages: Old Church Slavonic, Bulgarian, Russian and doesn't exists in: Macedonian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Serbian One more question. Is there cases and declensions in the present Macedonain language and which other slavic languages doesn't have declensions?
quote:Stan ili vrati se na temata ili ocekuvaj sledniot tvoj esej posveten na lingvalnite razliki megu mekedoskiot i bugarskiot jazik da bide simnat od ovoj topic.
quote:Nemam slika, no go imam videno so svoi ochi. Staveno e tamu ushte pred mnogu vekovi.
|mnik||I have only one thing to tell you! stay away from this forum! when refering to the Old Macedonian language, I ment specialy the old Macedonian Cyrilic, which we have modifyed just to distinct from you, since you use all the crap against us. but the fact is that Kiril and Methodi are Macedonians from Solun, wh never under constant Bulg rulership, setteled with Macedonians and other Minoritys, even you Bulgs, but stayed always macedonian. So Cyrilic was used from all the Slavs, since Kiril and Methody were even to Slovakia, and have teached the Slavs there, and with the Ortodox faith they spreaded the Alphabet and the Language trhough out the region. and today the Slovak have their own Alphabet , since they want to build their own Political State with their own political strategy, and for your information I understand them more than your mixed Russ Macedonian Tatar crap you are speaking. and that the Bulgs do not have 100% the same Cyrilic as the original is also true, and as you say the Russians have those letters too, so do you consider your self as Russian? they are majority over your Bulg population, were present long time in your politics,and they had have you under your protection because they consider your as Russian Tartars may be. so you are minority to them, and your friking language is more inpacted from the Russian than from ours or any other west Slavik, since the russians can understand you and they can much more less understand me, following your ass is Russian, and since your fricking anscestors came from Volga region, present Russia, you are Volgar->Bolgar->Blgar, so more precisely a Tatar Russ. hahaha. so buzz off! and do not bother to reply, since this is not a discusion area about the language!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
|mnik||no problem [:)]|
|mnik||Macedonian Sun on the Pafta and Tepelak(large) http://www.macedon.org/makedonika/supporting_docs/dignity_sun.htm cool[:D]|
|mnik||here is how the macedonians also write, so are we now greek????? [img]http://www.macedonia-info.org/history/Otomanski_period/Razlovci-makedonski_sonca/Avtor_zograf1.jpg[/img] so the letters do not count!!!!|
|dejan||thanks for all the info mnik![:D] stan....check your private messages[;)]|
quote:I cannot answer to you in that topic. I follow the rules. If you want to discuss this alphabet please open another topic. I'll tell you one hint ;) Not the first word. It's obviously the "macedonian" word "рака", but the second symbol is different thant the last? Why it's not with two "а"-s ? In Bulgarian is "ръка" :)
|dejan||ne sum znael za toa sv kliment crkvata vo ohrid!!! ve molam, ako nekoj ima sliki, ili nekoj ohrigani na forumot, da go slikate toa....neznam zosto drzhavata ne go 'promocira' ova sve!|
quote:ima go toa niz cela makedonija, ne samo u sv kliment, a zasho makedonskata vlada toa ne go prave e ednostaven, izrodi se, zimat pari za da trajat.
|dejan||stvarno bi sakal da vidam sliki od ova...dali moze nekoj da mi objasni sto znaci toa 'kutlesh' mislam e makedonskoto sonce, ama ne razbiram?? stan, what do you have to say about the Macedonian sun evident in our Churches?? Wouldn't surprise me if this was the case in Bulgaria.|
|ProMKD||Дејан, и во една црква во Радовиш сум видел слика од подот, исто има огромно Македонско Сонце. Прекрасно е да се види, ке пробам да ти најдам слика една. TO STAN: Тоа што пишува "Рока" на сликата, е заради тоа што во некој Македонски диалекти се зборува така, воместо ние Скопјани како викаме Рака тие викаат Рока.|
quote:tie ne postojat veke,blagodarenie na nasite sosedi.
|mnik||eve nekoj ikoni od Bogorodica so makedonskoto sonce na Cheloto![:D] ova e od XI vek http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i03pict.htm http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i03d1.htm na ovaa nekomu ne mu se svigjalo sonceto pa si grebkal [}:)] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i07pict.htm tuka e isto na cheloto i na ramoto, malku stilizirano ama toa e [:D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i27pict.htm a tuka epten ubavo se gleda [:D] od XIV vek sa http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i28pict.htm i ovde isto http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i31pict.htm od petnaesti vek [8D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i45pict.htm ova ne e bogorodica ama pogledni na levata strana malku pogore od levoto kjoshe [:D] na portite kolkavo e nacrtano http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i48pict.htm ili ovde pak na marija na cheloto i na raminjata, malo e ama toa e [:D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i50pict.htm ebe go isto od royal door ama zgolemeno na Bogorodica na cheloto i na ramenjata[:D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i50d1.htm|
|mnik||zabravi od XVI vek da gi stavam [8D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i47pict.htm pogledni na zavesata shto vise [8D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i53pict.htm|
|mnik||pak od XIV vek podobra perspektiva[:D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i17d2.htm http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i31d1.htm|
|mnik||Eve zgolemuvanje shto najdov isto od XIV vek[:D] http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i31d1.htm http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i28d1.htm http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i17d2.htm|
|dejan||hey can you Bulgarians explain this all to me?? Please, i'm very confused, what is that 'sun' or 'star' ?? Please amaze me with your knowledge[;)]|
quote:Deki slabo ti odi istorijata. Sonceto i dxvezdata se edno isto. Dvete se staro bugarski simboli koi na najgrub nacin se ukradeni i prevzemeni od nas Makedoncite. Zarem ti ne si cul za Slncev breg...sto mislis zasto se vika toa taka, .....pa zasto se toa starozavetni blgarski simboli. [:D][:D][:D][:(][:D][:D][:D]
|stan||Let me contribute something to you cause: Lead sling bullet with star emblem on one side and thunderbolt emblem on other side (Egypt) [img]http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/projectile2.jpg[/img] :)|
quote:Ok, the sun is Macedonian, but now you want the stars too. Please, leave us at least one galaxy! Isn't it booring to have all the universe [:D]
|mnik||Ama sepak vo makedonija e najgolem broj na ikoni so Makedonskoto sonce, a ne samo na Freski, tuku i kako Simbol nezavisno od Freskite[:D] Stan, ofcourse every nation on the earth has access to the scy, so they can see the Stars, and have drawn it, but no nation on the world have adopted it as own simbol, and the Macedonians have the Sun as their simbol all the time. (note the Sun is also star, and if you look it on sunrise and sundown, and have lensce reflection can see it as sun burst) tja our sun is our sun[8D] and you cant explain it why it doesnt appear on the Icons of Bulgaria(Pirin Macedonia excluded)|
|dejan||Stan, what are you trying to say?? That nearly all countries have a star or sun as some sort of symbol? Sorry but you happen to be wrong[:)] jakov, sega sve mi e jasno[:D]|
|mnik||I happend to know that the Chinise have the Sun(Star) as simbol long time ago, since they are one of the oldest civilisation, following the Ancient Macedonias have stolen it from them[:p][^] hahahahaha, just a joke|
|Jakov||Eps Stan gi zedovte site lavovli, sega nie da gi zememe site dzvezdi i galaksii, neli. ne e bas dosadno i so celiot univerzum ;)|
|mnik||See The Pafta and Tepelak, part of the folklor dresses in Macedonia, they have the sun too [:D][:D] http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Macedoniansymbols/MacedonianSun.html the chinese have stolen the sun from us [:D][:D][:D] hahaha|
|dejan||Stan! Any comments on all this? Coz i mean.....if Ohrid was the centre of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church or whatever, then why are there these type of frescoes in Macedonia? Also Churches that have the Macedonian sun? Hmmm!|
|mnik||this is not just any sun(star) but the sun of the aleksandar!!!! http://www.soros.org.mk/konkurs/019/eng/i31d1.htm well coments?????[?][?][?] it is very clear drawing(guess they used wather proof colors[:D]).|
|dejan||vo pravo si mnik[:D]!|
quote:e ke se zaebavame li [:p][?]
|Emo||Speaking about the beautiful "Macedonian" sun take a look here :-) http://archives.vmacedonia.com/7319.htm [:)]|
quote:Ova e nekoja nov trend. Samo citiranje. Eden ke kaze nesto i posle nekoj mesec drug "pobratim" ke go citira kako da e toa nekoja "nuzna vistina" Interesno![;)]
|dejan||That is also very interesting Emo!|
|mnik||Hey Emo, in which part of Bulg are this stars found. and sorry but they do not look as Aleksandars. and if they were from Aleksandars time, in that time there was no Bulgaria!!! so how do you want to say that this Stars have to do anything with you Guys[?] ours have continium, since Aco to present, yours[?] to prall with something that has nothing to do with you is not smart!|
|Emo||Well Dejan I'm glad you like my posting [:D] Jakov you are right! Referring to a reference means nothing. If you are not blind you will see the star here: [img]http://www.temp-bg.com/temp_bg/images/st_dimov/gk/T04-0550.jpg[/img] (Both objects on the right) And here is the original location of the image: http://www.temp-bg.com/temp_bg/sevt_bg.htm Actually the page is quite interesting. Take some time to read it.|
|Emo||Hello Mnik, [:)] I think I was misunderstood. Did I say those artifacts were Bulgarian? I did not. They were found in the tomb of Thracian king Seutus in the valley of the Thracian kings (in the center of BG). Together with them a gold cup was discovered. The archeologists say that at the bottom of the cup there is a symbol identical with the "Sun of Vergina". That cup together with the other similar symbols found on several coins in the tomb, says the leader of the archeological expedition, show that ancient Thracians and ancient Macedonians were one and the same people. Since the thracian civilization is acknowledged to be the oldest in Europe it is logical to conclude that ancient Macedonians descend from the Thracians and the Sun of Vergina as a symbol is older than the Macedonians. Unfortunately I cannot find a picture of that cup. In fact I suppose that this is the cup: [img]http://www.temp-bg.com/temp_bg/images/st_dimov/gk/T04-0497.jpg[/img] but its bottom is not visible on that picture. As for my previous posting it is quite clear that the symbol on the objects is the same with the Star of Vergina except for the fact that the Thracian symbol is personalized (the head in the center): [img]http://www.temp-bg.com/temp_bg/images/st_dimov/gk/T04-0550.jpg[/img][img]http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/sun.jpg[/img] My intention was not to argue with you on "national" basis, but to share with you some knowledge. Cheers|
|mnik||Emo, sory that I over reacted, but I have it enough denounciating all which is Macedonian, from ancient time to present! but sorry!![:)] I guess not all Bulgarians are the same. What interests me, is the fact from which century BC are dated all this artefacts??? I can not exactly read the Bulgarian Text, so can you please tell me??? and I completly agree with dejan, since Macedonia at that time have included Tracial too. But there is also new theory that the Tracians as well as Trojans(Troa->Triglav->Slav deity) and Macedonians, were from the same groop of people, such as the Slavs are, but had different Statehood. how much truth is in this, is in present unknown! But fact is that the Tracian culture was influened Vast theritory, including Macedonia and more, but in very very ancient time. and for the end, I will say, still I support dejans view, since Tracia was also under Macedonian rulership. once again sorry being rude with you, but you can understand why [;)] so the sun is for all of us there, but the Acos sun was Macedonian. [8D]|
|Emo||Yes you may be right. Siautis (Seuthes) III, ruled since 343 until 324 BC which is the time of Phlip and Alexander. I also read that new theory about the common orign of ancient Tracians, Macedonians and Slavs. It is very interesting and seems quite credible. Thank you for being polite! :-) That's the spirit we need!|