| Nezavisno Kosovo? Rusija i Kina velat "OK" |
| achtung_panzer |
Na sredba megju Condoleeza Rice i Sergej Lavrov vo Vashington bilo dogovoreno Rusija da ne pravi prechki dokolku Kosovo stane nezavisno. Prethodno takov ist odgovor bil dobien i od kineskata strana:
[url]http://news.ft.com/cms/s/80063d24-b3c9-11da-89c7-0000779e2340.html[/url]
Koga se znae deka i Amerika e za nezavisno Kosovo, "pregovorite" sega se sveduvaat na obichna formalnost. Ostvaruvanjeto na golemoalbanskiot son e na povidok... |
| OooOo |
George Vojnovic, Amerikanec so srpsko poteklo vika:
"Pripremite se za nezavisno Kosovo"
Vashington, Kosovska Mitrovica -- U Kontakt grupi postoji konsenzus da che konachni status Kosova biti nezavisnost, kaze americhki senator Dzordz Vojnovich.
"Moram da kazem da je najverovantiji ishod nezavisnost Kosova i za tu moguchnost bi Beograd trebalo da se pripremi. Medjutim, Kosovo neche dobiti nezavisnost sve dok ne ispuni odredjene uslove medjunarodne zajednice", kaze americhki senator srpskog porekla Dzordz Vojnovich.
Vojnovich smatra da bi srpski lideri trebali da se izbore za zashtitu manastira, crkava i srpskog zivlja, da u toj pokrajini vlada bezbednost, da izbeglice mogu da se vrate, da se ostvari prava decentralizacija, poboljsha ekonomija. Takodje me brine shto Beograd ne podstiche kosovske Srbe da uzmu ucheshcha u pregovarachkom procesu."
Albanskim liderima na Kosovu, predsedniku Sejdijuu i premijeru Chekuu rekao sam da ako zele nezavisnost moraju da stvore potrebnu bezbednost za sve. Sve dok se to ne osvrati, na Kosovu moraju biti prisutne snage NATO, medjunrodna policija i medjunarodne sudije, rekao je Vojnovich.
Vojnovich smatra da nezavisno Kosovo, ako bude multietnichko i slobodno drushtvo neche destabilizovati region. "Ono shto che destabilizovati taj region je produzetak sadashnje situacije. Ne verujem ni u stvaranje velike Albanije. U doba nove tehnologijie, svi mi znamo shta se deshava u svakom delichu sveta i medjunarodna zajednica che znati kako da se uhvati u koshtac sa svim nedoslednostima na Kosovu", rekao je senator Vojnovich.
Kontakt grupa: Udjite u institucije
Chlanovi medjunarodne Kontakt grupe zatrazili od predstavnika Srpske liste za Kosovo da se ukljuche u rad kosovskih institucija. To je nakon sastanka u Prishtini za B92 izjavio poslanik te liste Goran Bogdanovich. "Na takav zahtev moj stav je da albanska strana i medjunarodna zajednica moraju da ispune uslove poput pochetka decentralizacije, povratka raseljenih i ostvarenje ljudskih prava", kaze Bogdanovich.
"Kad se ima u vidu chinjenica da sve te stvari josh uvek stoje u mestu, ne vidim razlog shta bi mi u ovom trenutku mogli da uchinimo kroz institucije samouprave na prostoru Kosova da bi poboljshali to stanje. Mislim da u ovom trenutku takodje, kad su pregovori pocheli oko statusa Kosova da ne bi bilo umesno ulaziti u institucije, ako smo chekali vech godinu i po dana da ne budemo u institucijama, ne vidim razlog da bi sada bili u njima i ne znam shta bi mi mogli uraditi u ovom trenutku u tim institucijama", kaze on.
Bogdanovich, koji je i chlan beogradskog tima za razgovore o buduchem statusu Kosova, rekao je da su on, Oliver Ivanovich i Randjel Nojkich, kao predstavnici Srpske liste, chlanovima Kontakt grupe objasnili znachaj i koncept decentralizacije vlasti na Kosovu iz srpskog ugla.
Prema njegovim rechima, u razgovoru je istaknuto i da medjunarodne standarde za reformu lokalne samourpave treba nadograditi kako bi se reshili realni problemi: "Zbog specifichnosti situacije na prostoru Kosova i Metohije, na neki nachin mora biti specifichan i vid decentralizacije. Pravo Srbije na Kosovu nije neshto shto moze da nestane. Niko nema prava da kaze da je nama Miloshevich potroshio to pravo i da moramo sada da krechemo od nule. Naravno, albansko stanovnishtvo ima svoja prava. Nash pristup nije jednostran i ne govorimo da srpsko stanovnishtvo ima sva prava na Kosovu, a da Albanci nemaju."
S druge strane, od kosovskih Albanaca chlanice Kontakt grupe zatrazile su da omoguche vidljive rezultate u ispunjenju stanarda, posebno onih koji se tichu manjinskih zajednica. Predstavnici Kontakt grupe su takode naglasili da kosovski lideri moraju biti fleksibilniji u pregovorima o statusu, posebno po pitanju decentralizacije i zashtite crkvenog nasledja na Kosovu.
|
| Satanico Pandemonium |
Vojnovich ne e bas od samo Srpsko poteklo. Majka mu e Slovenka no ajde ne e bitno. Bitno e toa sto zboruva toj a toa e isto sto go zboruvaat i ostanatite. Jasno e deka Kosovo nemoze da bide pod Belgrad, mislam deka toa e nezamislivo. I ne e nisto toa loso ako navistina Kosovo gi ispolni onie uslovi koj gi spomenuvaat site pa i Vojnovich : pravata na malcinstvata, Srbite da se vratat, crkvite, manastirite, decentralizacija , da nema kriminal, so drugi zborovi ako si nealbanec ne treba da se plasis deka ke bides zagrozen.
No, jasno e isto taka kako bel den deka nezavisno Kosovo so ovie denesni Albanci tie uslovi nemoze da gi ispolni. Se prasuvam sto ke bide togas? I kakva klazula ke postoi (ako voopsto postoi ) ako situacijata na Kosovo ostane kakva sto e sega a i od porano? |
| Satanico Pandemonium |
Koj saka vakva drzava? Kako ke se integrira celiot toj prostor vo EU so vakov problem?
Сандеј Тајмс“: Косово се повеќе во рацете на албански банди
Макфакс
10.04.2006
Косово се повеќе тоне во рацете на организираните албански банди, што фрла сенка на напорите на меѓународната заедница, јужната српска покраина, да ја претворат во независна држава до крајот на годината, пишува лондонскиот весник „Сандеј Тајмс“.
Весникот се осврнува на преговорите за статусот на Косово, кои деновиве се одржуваа во Виена, каде беше потенцирано дека бандите што во 1998 година, криумчареа оружје од Албанија во покраината, сега се повторно активни, и по истите канали шверцуваат нафта, дрога и цигари, а се повеќе ја развиваат и трговијата со луѓе.
Дека ситуацијата на Косово не е розева, потврдува и предупредувањето кое Обединетите Нации деновиве му го испратија на Шефот на УМНИК на Косово, Сорен Јерсен Петерсен, кој како што пишува весникот, бил обвинет, дека замижува пред финансиските малверзации на приштинскиот аеродром.
Петерсен категорично ги отфрли ваквите обвинувања, иако ОН признаваат дека корупцијата е длабоко присутна кај привремената косовска влада.
„На власт е криминална држава на која и е потребна илегална подземна структура, која ќе ја снабдува со се што и е потребно за да преживее. Таквите мрежи, се потпираат на слабоста на јавните институции, што не може да се казнат“, изјави Марек Новицки, поранешен омбудсман за Косово и познат борец за човекови права.
Според „Сандеј Тајмс“ пак, профитот стекнат на криминален начин се вложува во трговските центри и хотели, кои забрзано никнуваат на Косово.
Посебно популарни се и бензиските станици, чија што цел е перењето на пари, стекнати преку шверцот со нафта, контролиран од неколку познати косовски кланови, што традиционално се поврзани со Црна Гора, пишува весникот. |
| ProMKD |
quote:
Originally posted by Der_Beste
За наше добро, купувајте украински производи! :)
[:D][:D]Me nasmea!!! I vo pravo si. Bratja Ukrainci! [:)] |
| achtung_panzer |
I vednash odgovor od balistichkata matica- minister od albanskata vlada vekje ne garantiral za nepromenlivost na granicite na Balkanot ako Kosovo stanelo nezavisno:
[url]http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?pBroj=3013&stID=75179[/url]
Interesen odgovor na Ilinka Mitreva:
"- За нашите граници можеме да даваме гаранции само ние - рече Митрева."
Za zhal, toa vekje ne e taka...
|
| Satanico Pandemonium |
quote:
Originally posted by achtung_panzer
Na sredba megju Condoleeza Rice i Sergej Lavrov vo Vashington bilo dogovoreno Rusija da ne pravi prechki dokolku Kosovo stane nezavisno. Prethodno takov ist odgovor bil dobien i od kineskata strana:
[url]http://news.ft.com/cms/s/80063d24-b3c9-11da-89c7-0000779e2340.html[/url]
Koga se znae deka i Amerika e za nezavisno Kosovo, "pregovorite" sega se sveduvaat na obichna formalnost. Ostvaruvanjeto na golemoalbanskiot son e na povidok...
Za Rusija odamna se znae deka nezavisno Kosovo i odgovara. Taa si go ima istiot problem vo transdniestrija, Abhazija i Juzna Osetija, i ostanatite mesta kade nivnoto malcinstvo zivee vo slicni pokraini kako albanskoto na Kosovo te Putin uste od porano zboruvase deka dupli standardi ke treba da se izbegnat. Kosovo modelot ke mora da se primeni nasekade vo svetot togas. Rusite si imaat oceneto sto e vo niven interes. Verojatno po tertekot na nezavisno Kosovo ke sakaat da si go resat svojot problem so malcinstvata svoi vo okolnite drzavi. A vtoro , prasanje e kolku sakaat so USA i EU da se konfrotiraat zaradi Srbite. Mozebi i ke gi zrtvuvaat Srbite za da dobijat nekade na drugo mesto. Se e politika. Vo sekoj slucaj Rusite se imaat prvo sebe si i svoite interesi si gi imaat odvagano i odluceno. |
| achtung_panzer |
>>"Verojatno po tertekot na nezavisno Kosovo ke sakaat da si go resat svojot problem so malcinstvata svoi vo okolnite drzavi." <<
Megjutoa tokmu kosovskiot primer e nestandarden: site se izjasnuvaat za nemenlivost na granicite a sepak drzhavata koja se sprotivstavi na nezavisnosta na Kosovo beshe zhestoko bombardirana i prinudena da se otkazhe od suverenitetot vrz del od svojata teritorija. Rusija nema da mozhe so ista zhestokost da nametne volja na okolnite drzhavi so rusko malcinstvo vo sluchaj na kosovski scenarija, ednostavno Rusija ne e Amerika.
Ne mora da se bide nauchnik za da se vidi koi posledici kje gi ima nezavisnosta na Kosovo po sostojbata vo Makedonija... a toa kolku sme gi izvagale nie sopstvenite interesi vo kosovskiot status (kako shto velish deka Rusija napravila vo odnos na Kosovo), pa toa e posebna prikazna (so mnogu kapitulantski elementi)... |
| Satanico Pandemonium |
quote:
Originally posted by achtung_panzer
>>"Verojatno po tertekot na nezavisno Kosovo ke sakaat da si go resat svojot problem so malcinstvata svoi vo okolnite drzavi." <<
Megjutoa tokmu kosovskiot primer e nestandarden: site se izjasnuvaat za nemenlivost na granicite a sepak drzhavata koja se sprotivstavi na nezavisnosta na Kosovo beshe zhestoko bombardirana i prinudena da se otkazhe od suverenitetot vrz del od svojata teritorija. Rusija nema da mozhe so ista zhestokost da nametne volja na okolnite drzhavi so rusko malcinstvo vo sluchaj na kosovski scenarija, ednostavno Rusija ne e Amerika.
Ne mora da se bide nauchnik za da se vidi koi posledici kje gi ima nezavisnosta na Kosovo po sostojbata vo Makedonija... a toa kolku sme gi izvagale nie sopstvenite interesi vo kosovskiot status (kako shto velish deka Rusija napravila vo odnos na Kosovo), pa toa e posebna prikazna (so mnogu kapitulantski elementi)...
Prvo, ako ocekuvas nekoj da se drzi do pravda zaboravi go. Vo pocetokot site SFRJ ja priznavaa cela i site bea protiv nejzinoto cepenje. Se dodeka preku nok Germanija ne gi prizna Hrvatska i Slovenija iako Badenterovata komisija rece deka samo Makedonija i Slovenija gi ispolnuvaat uslovite za nezavisnost. Preku nok i USA gi prizna ovie drzavi te taka se otkazaa od celovitosta na Jugoslavija i napravija nesto sto i samata nivna komisija rece deka e loso.
Iako sega prifakaa sekoj narod da se odredi na nas ne ni go dadoa toa pravo pod naseto ime. A isto i vo Bosna insistiraa na celovitost. Demek, dosta bilo cepenje samo do zlo vodi. Eh,, sega kako sto gledas pak go menuvaat toa so Kosovo. Po koj znae koj pat. Na Crna Gora i nudea i podbuckuvaa na nezavisnost dodeka Milosevic bese na vlast, sega ne sakaat tamu nezavisnost ama projde vozot. Vo Hrvatska imase etnicko cistenje na Srbite a i na Kosovo ama koj za toa zboruva...
Znaci se e politika i kratki interesi. Ona sto im e vo interes togas toa i ke go sprovedat. Taka da ako Kosovo im e vo interes ke bide i toa.
Inaku sto se odnesuva do Rusija TAA VEKE si go nametna svoeto vo spornite regioni. Transnistria se odcepi cim Moldavija stana drzava. Moldavija prati vojska tamu no Ruskata 14 armija go odbi napadot i ja porazi Moldavskata armija. Ruskata 14 armija e prisatna i den deneska tamu i ja odrzuva republikata koja ne e priznaena od nikogo. Vo taa republika samo 25% se Rusia dodeka okolu 40% se Rumunci na koj im e zabraneto da ucat na latinica i na svojot jazik po skolite tamu. Nikoj nemoze da go razresi problemot zatoa sto Ruskite oruzani sili se tamu. Aleksandar Lebed koj bese komandant na istite ne ednaska kaza deka za 2 sati moze da e vo Buk*rest ako do toa dojde.
Slicno e i so Juzna Osetija i Abkhazija, delovi cij ziteli imaat Ruski pasosi no nikoj ne gi priznava. Rusija saka da si gi razresi na megjunaroden plan ovie nekolku tocki. Mozno e Kosovo da i doslo ko kec na desetka. Nema da se buni na nezavisnost, na USA i na EU nema da im pravi problem za Kosovo a za uzvrat i od EU i USA ke dobie podrska deka ako Kosovo stane nezavisno isto ke se primeni na Transnistria, Juzna Osetija, Abkhazija i slicno.
A nie? Nie kako po obicaj sme samo promatraci na nasata sudbina. Nie nemame plan za nisto i se sto ni se slucuva samo ke ne "snajde" po ovoj ili onoj faktor. Nas ne ni e vo interes sudbinata da si ja zememe vo svoite race i da izgradime drzava kakva sto sakame (nastrana toa sto ne znaeme sto sakame). Poarno ni e ako moze da ukradneme nesto ako ni se dade, ili barem da ne bide poloso a stalno nadevajki se deka drug ke ne spasi i ke ne oprai. I deka pravdata e na nasa strana. |
| Der_Beste |
Далеку е Русија од нас, а далеку сме и ние од Русија. Косово и Метохија е веќе загубено за Србија. Меѓутоа со независноста на Косово и Метохија ќе се отвори пандорината кутија. Македонија најсилно ќе ги почувствува последиците.
За наше добро, купувајте украински производи! :) |
| Satanico Pandemonium |
Eve, pak Rusija insistira za nezavisno Kosovo, od pricinite koj veke gi navedov. Vo zavisnost od resenieto za Kosovo , ke se sozdade nova teritorija - Alanija koja Rusija planira da ja anektria i da si ja zgolemi teritorijata uste poveke:
Vladimir Mukagov / Itar-Tass
Ossetian leaders Mamsurov, left, and Kokoity attending last week's meeting.
Russian officials are floating the idea of making the world's largest
country a little bit bigger by adding a new region called Alania -- an area that
would consist of a merged North and South Ossetia.
The proposed expansion hinges on Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia
voting for independence -- a vote that would mirror a similar plebiscite
planned for Kosovo. Russia insists that Kosovo's vote could be copied to resolve
conflicts in separatist regions across the former Soviet Union.
While talk of uniting the two regions into a single Russian subject might be
a trial balloon, Russia would face potentially deep repercussions if it were
to set the precedent of embracing the supremacy of a people's right to
self-determination.
Gennady Bukayev, an assistant to Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov, told a
joint session of the leaders of South and North Ossetia on March 22 that the
federal government had agreed in principle to incorporate South Ossetia.
The two republics would then be united into one, "the name of which is
already known to the world -- Alania," Bukayev said at the meeting in the North
Ossetian capital, Vladikavkaz, Vedomosti and Nezavisimaya Gazeta reported.
Bukayev's comments were received enthusiastically by the attending
officials, and he was interrupted by applause several times, said Madina Dzhanayeva,
an Itar-Tass reporter who attended the meeting, Vedomosti reported.
Hours after Bukayev spoke, the Foreign Ministry released a statement denying
that Moscow had plans to incorporate South Ossetia, even if the region held
a referendum in the wake of the planned Kosovo vote.
Ministry spokesman Mikhail Kamynin said in the statement on the ministry's
web site that Bukayev had been misquoted and that Russia's position remained
that the status of South Ossetia should be determined within the Joint Control
Commission, a group that includes South Ossetia, Moscow and Tbilisi.
Repeated attempts to contact Bukayev through the federal government press
service were unsuccessful.
The Foreign Ministry's attempt to contain the news failed, however, as
government officials and analysts alike began to publicly debate how far a Kosovo
precedent could propel separatist regions across the former Soviet Union
toward de jure independence.
Despite attempts by Washington, Tbilisi and Baku to present a vote in Kosovo
as a unique situation, North Ossetian President Taimuraz Mamsurov said the
unification of North and South Ossetia was "inevitable."
"When and how it will happen is a different issue," he told Interfax a day
after the March 22 joint session.
Federation Council Speaker Sergei Mironov was only a bit more diplomatic,
saying the question of whether South Ossetia would become part of Russia
depended on the final status of Kosovo.
"We are closely watching what is happening in Kosovo. The situation there is
very similar to South Ossetia, and they are heading toward the establishment
of an independent state," Mironov said, Interfax reported.
"The people of North and South Ossetia are one people, even if it [the
territory] is divided. And as history shows, people like them unify eventually,"
he said.
Mironov's position dovetails with Russia's view that whatever status
Kosovars choose and the international community seals should be treated as a
precedent for the resolution of similar conflicts.
Ethnic Albanian and Serbian officials are currently engaged in United
Nations-mediated talks on the future of Kosovo. Albanians, who comprise about 90
percent of Kosovo's 2 million people, want full independence, while Serbia and
Kosovo's Serb minority insist that Belgrade retain some control over the
province. Despite Serbia's stance, some form of independence appears almost
certain for Kosovo, which has been run as a UN protectorate since 1999, when NATO
air strikes drove Serbian forces out and ended a crackdown by then-Yugoslav
President Slobodan Milosevic on Albanian separatists.
President Vladimir Putin voiced Russia's position during his news conference
on Jan. 31. "If someone thinks that Kosovo can be granted full independence
as a state, then why should the Abkhaz or the South Ossetians not also have
the right to statehood?" Putin said. Abkhazia is another separatist region of
Georgia.
"I am not saying that Russia would immediately recognize Abkhazia or South
Ossetia as independent states, but international experience has such
precedents," he said. "I am not saying whether these precedents are a good or a bad
thing, but in order to act fairly in the interests of all people living on this
or that territory, we need generally accepted, universal principles for
resolving these problems."
In the weeks after Putin's remarks, officials from the separatist
governments of Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Nagorno-Karabakh have voiced support for
the
argument that Kosovo could serve as a precedent, while senior officials from
Georgia, Moldova and Azerbaijan have challenged the argument.
Nagorno-Karabakh is an enclave claimed by Armenia and Azerbaijan, while Moldova is
struggling with a separatist region of its own, Transdnestr. With the exception of
Transdnestr, all of the breakaway regions are populated by a dominant ethnic
group.
Georgy Khaindrava, Georgia's minister for conflict resolution, said Putin's
remarks came as no surprise given Russia's "unilateral support" of Abkhazia
and South Ossetia.
"The Kosovo model is not a universal one," said Georgian Foreign Minister
Gela Bezhuashvili.
Azeri Foreign Minister Elmar Mammadyarov said Kosovo "must not set a
precedent, regardless of its outcome."
Even U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Rosemary DiCarlo weighed in,
telling Kommersant that Kosovo was a unique case that had grown out of the
violent breakup of Yugoslavia.
Political experts said, however, that Kosovo's case was not so unique and
could easily be applied to most of the frozen conflicts in the former Soviet
Union.
"How many parameters can one list to make their case unique? Is Kosovo all
that unique? I don't think so," said Monica Duffy Toft, an expert on ethnic
conflicts in the former Soviet Union at Harvard University's Kennedy School of
Government.
She and Alexei Malashenko, an analyst with the Carnegie Moscow Center, said
the Kosovo vote would set a precedent that the leaders of South Ossetia,
Abkhazia and Nagorno-Karabakh would rely on to strengthen their independence
bids.
"The Kosovo vote will open the floodgates, it will be a wake-up call that
the principle of territorial integrity is no longer absolute in the tradeoff
with the right to self-determination," Malashenko said.
He and Mikhail Roshchin, a Caucasus expert at the Institute of Oriental
Studies, expressed doubt that Russia had any imminent plans to annex South
Ossetia and said Bukayev's statement looked like a trial balloon. "They might be
probing to see what the reaction is," Roshchin said.
However, the statement should not have been permitted even as a trial
balloon if Russia was truly interested in absorbing South Ossetia, Malashenko said.
"They should have kept mum until after the vote and the subsequent
recognition of Kosovo," he said.
Nikolai Silayev, a senior expert with the Center for Caucasus Studies at the
Moscow State University of Foreign Relations, agreed the statement could
have been a test and questioned the wisdom of incorporating a willing South
Ossetia. He said the economically depressed region would become a new burden for
the federal budget and that unification of the two regions might fuel
Ossetian nationalism.
Silayev said Russia would benefit most if Georgia formed a weak
confederation state with Abkhazia and South Ossetia and that state was anchored to
Russia.
Toft also questioned the viability of Russia's position on Kosovo being a
precedent for South Ossetia, noting that Russia could face the uncomfortable
prospect of Chechnya and other Russian regions dominated by one or two ethnic
groups in the North Caucasus also seeking independence through referendums.
South Ossetia fought and won a bloody war to achieve de facto independence
from Georgia in 1992. Since then, the region's economy has relied heavily on
Russia for support, and its leaders have periodically called on Moscow to
incorporate the region into Russia.
South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity made the latest call at the joint
session in Vladikavkaz last week, saying he would ask the Russian Constitutional
Court to look into whether his region could be "re-integrated" into Russia. He
cited the 1774 Treaty of Kuchuk Kainarji between Russia and the Ottoman
Empire that made South Ossetia part of Russia, and said no later treaty had
transferred the region to Georgia.
Both Georgia and the United States criticized Kokoity. Julie Finley, the
U.S. ambassador to the Vienna-based Organization for Security and Cooperation in
Europe, said the United States reconfirmed "our unequivocal support for the
sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia and the peaceful resolution
of both the South Ossetia and Abkhazia conflicts based on that principle,"
The Associated Press reported.
Khaindrava, Georgia's minister for conflict resolution, also attacked
Bukayev's statement, calling it "absolutely irresponsible" and urging Moscow to
condemn it.
Russia officially maintains that it honors Georgia's territorial integrity,
and it keeps a peacekeeping force in South Ossetia. But Tbilisi has accused
Moscow of supporting the region through trade, economic aid and the
distribution of Russian passports to residents.
As of 2003, 70,000 people lived in South Ossetia, with 67 percent of them
ethnic Ossetian and 25 percent ethnic Georgians, according to Izvestia. A total
of 95 percent of the residents hold Russian passports, which Georgian
officials say is a reflection of Russia's tacit support for the independence
movement.
A similar number of residents in Abkhazia and a sizeable part of the
population of Transdnestr hold Russian passports.
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