Kosher blitzkrieg
Osven Gaza na meta e i Liban, iako oficijalno suverena drzhava toa ne ja sprechuva izraelskata vojska da bombardira delovi od nejziniot glaven grad za koi se znae deka pripagjaat na Hezbolah. Edna od celite e duri i aerodromot vo Bejrut.
Teshko verojatno e deka tradicionalnite sojuznici na Hezbolah kje ostanat ramnodushni na izraelskata ofanziva i na povidok e nova vojna megju Izrael i negovite arapski luti neprijateli. Vo retrospektiva, Izrael sekogash izleguval pobednik vo frontalnite konflikti so arapskite sosedi.
Za toa vreme golemite sili vo ON se obiduvaat da go ubedat iranskoto vodstvo da se otkazhe od nuklearnite ambicii...
Bez navleguvanje vo toa koj e vo krivo a koj e vo pravo, presudete sami kolku e vazhna prednosta vo voenata tehnologija nasproti brojnosta na armija vooruzhena samo so zolji i kalashnjikovi...
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Originally posted by Christian
NEVER!!! |
I wrote the above just to make people aware of one very important fact. This is the fact that even the government of the Republic of Macedonia recognises: government statistics show that the birthrate of Albanians is much higher than that of Macedonians. Ask any mathematician who has even half a brain and they will tell you that at some point in the not too distant future there will be more Albanians than Macedonians in that country.
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Originally posted by SydneyGuy
I wrote the above just to make people aware of one very important fact. This is the fact that even the government of the Republic of Macedonia recognises: government statistics show that the birthrate of Albanians is much higher than that of Macedonians. Ask any mathematician who has even half a brain and they will tell you that at some point in the not too distant future there will be more Albanians than Macedonians in that country. |
Sho. sega ti se obiduvash da zaplashish nekogo ili samo kazhuvash fakti.
Pa razmisli vaka. 1945 vo Makedonija imashe 5% Albanomakedonci. Posle 60 godini stignaa odvaj do 20%. Shto mislish ushte kolku vreme bi trebalo toj procent da dojde na 50%? 30 godini? 50? Samo treba da imash na um deka i etnichkite Makedonci se ragjaat, znaci za 40 godini i nivniot broj ke se zgolemi. Suma sumarum, ova go velam vaka proizvolno, koga Albanomakedoncite ke gi dostignat tie famozni 50% Republika Makedonija ke broi najmalku 4 milioni zhiteli, a i kojznae koja Imperija ke seche i peche na Balkanot 40 godini down the road.
P.S.
Vo prvite nekolku popisi na naselenieto vo SRM, ovoj narod se vodeshe kako Shiptari. Posle nekoe vreme bea preimenuvani vo Albanci.
Sega kako shto stojat rabotite ovoj narod veke treba da se priviknuva na nazivot Albanomakedonci, kako del od Makedonskata nacija, pokraj etnichkite Makedonci, Srbi, Turci, Romi, Bugari....
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Originally posted by SydneyGuy
I wrote the above just to make people aware of one very important fact. This is the fact that even the government of the Republic of Macedonia recognises: government statistics show that the birthrate of Albanians is much higher than that of Macedonians. Ask any mathematician who has even half a brain and they will tell you that at some point in the not too distant future there will be more Albanians than Macedonians in that country. |
Are we talking about Albanians native to Macedonia or are we talking about the birthrate of the imported Albanians from the villages in Kosovo still living in the 14th century? Are we discussing the birthrate of the high school and college educated Albanian girls or the ones that haven't seen much further than their "feredzhe"?
The Gigo principle applies.
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| Here's a very important point to keep in mind: at some point in the future, Albanians will out-number Macedonians in Macedonia. What will this mean? It will mean that Albanians will be able to elect a government that will be pro-Albanian because in a democracy the majority rules. What will this mean for Macedonians? It will mean that a time will come when Macedonians will become a minority in their own country - Macedonians will not be in control of their own destiny - the Albanians will take control instead. |
NEVER!!!
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Originally posted by Christian
NEVER!!! |
NEVER!!!say NEVER!!!
Све ова за неколкумина киднапирани војници? Алал им вера значи, не научија овие тупациве, you just don't f**k with the Jew!
Значи утре да гледам CBC World News...
znam...ne sum bash "up to date" so likot.
taa e od onie drugine karikaturi, posle skandalot i nasilstvata shto go napravija muslimanite.
izgleda nekakvi samokritichni-vizii im e rabotava so karikaturite na muslimanive.em gi dirnaa u mozok...a ova mislam deka govori za sebe...shto gi snashlo de.
Izrael ima mnogu raboti so go prat "los" ama da bese koja i bilo drzava opkruzena so zemji si site do eden ja gledat ko neprijatel i ja zemat sekoja edna prilika da ja cepkat, kako bi reagirala ta drugata drzava, sigurno slicno. Izraelcite nikogas nema da zaminat od tamu, prasanje e do koga svetot ke e na drugata strana, zosto ako ne bese toj na drugata strana Izrael ke gi sredese mnogu od tie okolu.
Mozi ova pogore zvuci deka jas sum za Izrael, ama ne e taka, ne mi se uste jasni site raboti za da mozam da razberam se so se slucva na to parce zemja, ama mi e jasno deka ne e se crno-belo vo ova situacija. I odi malku potamu coek vo seto ova Hezbolah poddrska od Sirija & Iran, Izrael od Amerika, koj protiv koj e vsusnost!? Najakoto e, ko sekogas, akcijata e daleku od tie so go palat oganot, lesno za niv takva vojna da otvorat...
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| ja bombardiraa cela edna drzava zaradi 2 vojnici,a nie...(ne mi se ni pisuva) |
i know what you mean, but dont worry things will change
Hezbolah vozvrakja so raketni napadi megjutoa bez znachaen efekt...
Mozhebi po mediumite niz EU se farbaat stranite vo ovoj konflikt so crno i belo... inaku zavisi od koj aspekt se gledaat rabotite, komu mu odgovara na pr. Hezbolah da e dobriot a Izrael loshiot. Ili komu mu odgovara izraelskite merkavi da si gi podmachkaat gasenicite so se' shto e islamski militant na patot do Bejrut i Damask. Sepak Izrael e organizirana drzhava a od drugata strana imame islamistichka tolpa spremna na najgrozomorni teroristichki akcii. Za Hezbolah i Palestina mozhe da navivash samo ako si vo zeleniot tabor ili vo drhzavata imash islamsko glasachko telo shto mozhe da gi odluchi nekoi idni izbori (tuka nekade spagjaat nekolku najgolemi EU chlenki)...
Najverojatno Palestincite posle ova mozhat komotno da se prostat od palestinska drzhava ili barem teritorijalni otstapki vo nivna korist...
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| Originally posted by Pro Patria 2 ja bombardiraa cela edna drzava zaradi 2 vojnici,a nie...(ne mi se ni pisuva) |
Niv glavuchite od Brisel i Vashington po glava ne gi mavaat koga zaveduvaat red niz nivnata drzhava i regionot, so nas e druga pesna; istite glavuchi od strana uporno ni gi uvaluvaat teroristite za pratenici... sakash red vo drhzavata? E nema, si se zeznal malku...
Hezbolah vrati na napadite so barazh od preku 200 raketi vrz pogranichnite izraelski gradovi od koi Haifa e najpogodena megjutoa shtetite ni oddaleku ne se kako onie niz Bejrut. Duri islamistite seriozno se imaat podnoveno so bespilotni letala, so edno od niv imaat teshko oshteteno izraelski brod...
Iznenaduva molkot od islamistichka strana, osven Hezbolah so raketnite napadi drug nikoj ni ne vozvrakja so bilo shto shto bi lichelo na organiziran voen odgovor. Niti Sirija smee da se vmesha, niti Iran, za sheicite (osven sheikot shto e vodach na Hezbolah vo Liban) muabet da ne pravime ...
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| The best way to defeat Israel is for the Palestinian and Lebanese people to do to Israel what Israel is doing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people: have bomb attacks on those things which are essential in supporting the rest of the community - electricity supply, water supply, manufacturing plants for military equipment, etc. The best form of defence is attack! |
if Israel goes on an all out war against Palestine nad Hezbollah it will wipe them of thje face of this earth in less than 48 hours.
Militant Leader Vows 'Open War' With Israel
By HAMZA HENDAWI, AP
BEIRUT, Lebanon (July 15) - Hezbollah rammed an Israeli warship with an unmanned aircraft rigged with explosives and set it ablaze Friday, Israeli military officials said, after attack jets smashed Lebanon's links to the world one by one and destroyed the headquarters of the Islamic guerrilla group's leader.
A man watches fuel tanks burn Friday at Beirut's international airport, which has been under attack by Israel's military since Thursday.
The attack on the warship off Beirut's Mediterranean coast - which left four sailors missing - was the most dramatic event on a violent day in the conflict that erupted suddenly Wednesday and appeared to be careening out of control despite pleas from world leaders for restraint on both sides.
During the same attack a civilian merchant ship was hit by a Hezbollah rocket, the Israeli army said. It did not give the nationality of the vessel or say whether there were casualties.
"You wanted an open war and we are ready for an open war," Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said in a taped statement. He vowed to strike even deeper into Israel with rockets.
Israel again bombarded Lebanon's airport and main roads in the most intensive offensive against the country in 24 years. For the first time it struck the crowded Shiite neighborhood of south Beirut around Hezbollah's headquarters, toppling overpasses and sheering facades off apartment buildings. Concrete from balconies smashed into parked cars, and car alarms set off by the blasts blared for hours.
The toll in three days of clashes rose to 73 killed in Lebanon and at least 12 Israelis, as international alarm grew over the fighting and oil prices rose to above $78 a barrel. The U.N. Security Council held an emergency session on the violence, and Lebanon accused Israel of launching "a widespread barbaric aggression."
In addition to the fighting in Lebanon, Israel pressed ahead with its offensive in the Gaza Strip against Hamas, striking the Palestinian economy ministry offices early Saturday.
The Israeli warship, which had been carrying several dozen sailors, was towed to Haifa after suffering heavy damage. The fire was put out after several hours. The military confirmed news reports that four sailors were missing and said a search for them was under way.
The Israeli army said the source of the attack was still under investigation. But military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the probe, said the ship had been targeted by an unmanned drone.
The explanation indicated Hezbollah has added a new weapon to the arsenal of rockets and mortars it has used against Israel. Hezbollah reconnaissance drones have entered Israeli airspace twice in recent years. In those instances, Israel accused Iran of providing the drone technology to the guerrilla group.
Despite fears the assault could bring down the Western-backed, anti-Syrian government of Lebanon, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed the campaign would continue until Hezbollah guerrillas, who are backed by Syria and Iran, lose their near-control of southern Lebanon bordering Israel.
Olmert agreed in a phone call with U.N. chief Kofi Annan to allow U.N. mediation for a cease-fire - but only if the terms include the disarming of Hezbollah and the return of two Israeli soldiers whose capture by the Muslim guerrillas Wednesday triggered the fighting.
Hezbollah rained dozens of rockets on towns in northern Israel. One rocket hit a home in Meron, killing a woman and her grandson. Some 500,000 Israelis were ordered to stay indoors and away from windows Friday night as a precaution against the rocket fire. Residents in northern border communities were ordered to sleep in bomb shelters, which are found in virtually every Israeli home and apartment building.
Nasrallah was not hurt after the Israeli missiles demolished his headquarters - two buildings in Beirut's southern neighborhoods, the militant group said. Three people died in the airstrikes.
The attack on the warship was apparently timed to coincide with Nasrallah's message on the militant group's television station. "The surprises that I have promised you will start now. Now in the middle of the sea, facing Beirut, the Israeli warship ... look at it burning," Nasrallah boasted.
President Bush, who has backed Israel's right to defend itself, spoke by phone with Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora from a G-8 summit in Russia and "reiterated his position" that the Israeli attacks should limit any impact on civilians, White House spokesman Tony Snow said.
But the promise fell short of the Lebanese leader's request for pressure for a cease-fire.
Israel's campaign appeared to have a two-pronged goal. One was to batter Hezbollah and end its near control of the south on Israel's borders.
"We know it's going to be a long and continuous campaign and operation, but it's very clear. We need to put Hezbollah out of business," Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan told The Associated Press.
Israel's army chief, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, said Hezbollah has rockets that can reach at least 40 miles, which would bring more Israeli cities, such as Hadera, within range.
The other goal was to seal off Lebanon by repeatedly striking its airport and main roads - including the coastal highway from north to south and the Beirut-Damascus highway, Lebanon's main land link to the outside world. At the same time, Israel was gradually escalating the damage to the country's infrastructure, painstakingly rebuilt since the civil war ended in 1990.
Israel holds Lebanon responsible for the capture of its two soldiers in a surprise Hezbollah raid; the Lebanese government insists it had nothing to do with the attack. However, Israel wants it to rein in the guerrillas, a move Lebanon has long resisted.
The level of damage inflicted by Israel appeared finely calibrated. For example, a missile punched a hole in a major suspension bridge on the Beirut-Damascus road but did not destroy it, unlike less expensive bridges on the road that were brought down. An Israeli strike hit fuel depots at one of Beirut's two power stations - sending massive fireballs and smoke into the sky - but avoided the station itself.
Throughout the morning, Israeli fighter-bombers pounded runways at Beirut's airport for a second day, apparently trying to ensure its closure after the Lebanese national carrier, Middle East Airlines, managed to evacuate its last five planes to Jordan. One bomb hit close to the terminal building.
Civilian casualties were mounting faster than during Israel's last major offensive in Lebanon, in 1996, an assault also sparked by Hezbollah attacks. In that campaign, 165 people were killed over 17 days, including 100 in the shelling of a U.N. base.
"We are on the right and we shall avenge every attack we endure," said Fadi Haidar, an American-Lebanese who swept up the shattered glass outside his store in south Beirut. "I have huge debts and now my store is damaged. ... But as time goes by, they will all realize that Sayyed Nasrallah is right and is working in the interest of Muslims."
Meanwhile, the U.S. government told Americans in Lebanon to consider leaving when it is safe, and said it was making plans for the evacuation of people who cannot leave on their own. The State Department estimates there are 25,000 U.S. citizens who work or live in Lebanon.
AP correspondents Karin Laub and Josef Federman in Jerusalem, and Sam F. Ghattas and Zeina Karam in Beirut, contributed to this report.
07-15-06 05:24 EDT AOL News
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Originally posted by Christian
if Israel goes on an all out war against Palestine nad Hezbollah it will wipe them of thje face of this earth in less than 48 hours. |
If Israel could do that so easily then they would have done it already. Israel's army is not as powerful as some people imagine it to be. With the right plan and resources any army on this planet can be defeated.
Edninstvena armija koja e posilna od Izrael e US. Izrael ne ja koristi i nema da ja iskoristi cela sila zasto cel svet e veke protiv Izrael, vklucuvajki ve i vas. (seuste ne se povikani rezervite). Megjutoa, Izrael poleka i stabilno ke gi unisto hizballah.
Aerodromite, i glavnite patista moraa da se bombardiraat: ako nema aerodromi i patista nemozat da pob egnat teroristite, ili da gi prenesat kidnapiranite vojnici vo iran ili kade ne, ili pa avionski da go napadnat izrael.
Dodeka za civilite vo liban, izrael pred sekoj napad gi predupreduva gragjanite, niv celta ne im e Liban ili lugeto tuku hizballah.
Dokolku imate drugi prasanja vo vrska so odbranata na Izrael protiv neciviliziranite teroristi ve molam kontaktirajte me :)
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| Originally posted by NINOCHKA A jas mislev deka Makedoncite ne se anti semiti... Edninstvena armija koja e posilna od Izrael e US. Izrael ne ja koristi i nema da ja iskoristi cela sila zasto cel svet e veke protiv Izrael, vklucuvajki ve i vas. (seuste ne se povikani rezervite). Megjutoa, Izrael poleka i stabilno ke gi unisto hizballah. Aerodromite, i glavnite patista moraa da se bombardiraat: ako nema aerodromi i patista nemozat da pob egnat teroristite, ili da gi prenesat kidnapiranite vojnici vo iran ili kade ne, ili pa avionski da go napadnat izrael. Dodeka za civilite vo liban, izrael pred sekoj napad gi predupreduva gragjanite, niv celta ne im e Liban ili lugeto tuku hizballah. Dokolku imate drugi prasanja vo vrska so odbranata na Izrael protiv neciviliziranite teroristi ve molam kontaktirajte me :) |
Znachi vaka se rabotite. Ako nekoj ne gi odobruva voenite akcii na Izrael togash toj treba da bide anti semit?
Tuku da te prasham, kako Izrael, tolku mala drzhava, uspeva da odrzhuva edna taka silna armija. Kolku ima, 2-3 milioni zhiteli? Pogolemiot del pustelija. Mora da ima nekoj silen sponzor po se izgleda.
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| Originally posted by Christian [quote]if Israel goes on an all out war against Palestine nad Hezbollah it will wipe them of thje face of this earth in less than 48 hours. |
Are you sure? Things don't work like that...
Pina, dokolku bese vo Izrael, (patem zemja koja ima 7 milioni ziteli i samo 2 kilometri pustina koi se uste ne se pretvoreni vo gradovi)ke gi slusnese site Izraelci kako se zalat deka plakaat POVEKE OD 30% NA TAKSI, a 80% od budgetot na Izrael odi vo armijata. I da ne zaboravam deka site 7 milioni ziteli vklucuvajki i zenski moraat da odat vo vojska. Ovoj del od Izrael se vika 'silicon valley' poradi toa sto sekoja kompanija e za tehnologija, i e eden od liderite vo IT biznisot! Zgora na toa izraelskata inteligencija (i vnatresna i nadvoresna) e na najvisoko nivo (povisoko nivo od US). Od kade takvi ambicii? Zasto bez vakvi sili Izrael nemoze da prezivee! US e glavniot sojuznik na Izrael (i ednistveniot) i go poddrzuva Izrael politicki, finanski (pari koi doagaat od evrejskite zaednici vo US) i ako zatreba militarno.
Sekoj razumen covek bi gi odobril odbranbenite voeni akcii na Izrael, zatoa sto apsoultno ne postoi drugo razumno resenie za terorizmot. Dokolku ti ne gi odobruvas, edinstveno objasnenie na mene mi e anti semitizam.
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| If Israel could do that so easily then they would have done it already. Israel's army is not as powerful as some people imagine it to be. With the right plan and resources any army on this planet can be defeated. |
Yes they are very powerful,plus they cant go out on an all out war becuase they r not fighting Lebanon they fighting hezbolah,which seem to hide behind the civilians. BUt the most important part is that attacking God's people is not a wise idea at all,because God is their shield and He has delivered Israel many,many times before their enemies. You wanna be on the winning side i'd suggest be on God's side. Israel is sorounded by countries which if given the oportunity wuold wanna wipe out Israel of the map of the earth,but they gotta face it IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN! Kako so kazav porano taka i sega ke povtoram Kako Izrael se brani drzava i Makedonija treba od niv da uci kako se vodi i brani drzava.
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| Originally posted by NINOCHKA Za tie koi se zainteresirani, Izrael momentalno koristi 15% od nivnata mok. Pina, dokolku bese vo Izrael, (patem zemja koja ima 7 milioni ziteli i samo 2 kilometri pustina koi se uste ne se pretvoreni vo gradovi)ke gi slusnese site Izraelci kako se zalat deka plakaat POVEKE OD 30% NA TAKSI, a 80% od budgetot na Izrael odi vo armijata. I da ne zaboravam deka site 7 milioni ziteli vklucuvajki i zenski moraat da odat vo vojska. Ovoj del od Izrael se vika 'silicon valley' poradi toa sto sekoja kompanija e za tehnologija, i e eden od liderite vo IT biznisot! Zgora na toa izraelskata inteligencija (i vnatresna i nadvoresna) e na najvisoko nivo (povisoko nivo od US). Od kade takvi ambicii? Zasto bez vakvi sili Izrael nemoze da prezivee! US e glavniot sojuznik na Izrael (i ednistveniot) i go poddrzuva Izrael politicki, finanski (pari koi doagaat od evrejskite zaednici vo US) i ako zatreba militarno. Sekoj razumen covek bi gi odobril odbranbenite voeni akcii na Izrael, zatoa sto apsoultno ne postoi drugo razumno resenie za terorizmot. Dokolku ti ne gi odobruvas, edinstveno objasnenie na mene mi e anti semitizam. |
6.5 miliono od koi nekade 75% se Evrei. A parite ne doagjaat od evrejski zaednici, parite doagjaat od Amerikanskite danochni obvrznici ili taxpayers kako gi vikaat ovde. Vo Canada nie plakjame 40 %pa i poveke, 30% shto plakjaat izraelcite e samo za pocket money.
Pa velish:
"Sekoj razumen covek bi gi odobril odbranbenite voeni akcii na Izrael, zatoa sto apsoultno ne postoi drugo razumno resenie za terorizmot. Dokolku ti ne gi odobruvas, edinstveno objasnenie na mene mi e anti semitizam."
A kako toa da na Kosovo i vo Makedonija Imperijata ne gi ostavi vladite na istite da se posluzhat so toa "razumno reshenie" za terorizmot shto se sluchuvashe i se sluchuva na ovie predeli. Sprema tvojata logika EU i USA se anti semiti neli? I shto na krajot na kraishtata, ima vrska so mojot ili bilo chiv stav kon terorizmot odnosno kako da se odgovori na istiot, so anti semitizam?
A ova deka "sekoj razumen chovek bi gi odobril odbrambenite voeni akcii na Izrael" ti e vistinski Globalistichki biser. Ako bombardiranje na se shto ke se stigne, ubivanje civili rushenje bolnici ,,,za tebe e razumno reshenie togash i ti ne si nishto poaren od tie t.n teroristi.
Postovite ti se protivrechni, vsushnost ti si nadoen so CNN vesti, nema nishto od tebe korisno da se chue ili ne daj bozhe objektivno.
Moe lichno mislenje za toj region?
Arpite se spremni za razumno reshenie, pregovori i sl, a Izraelcite treba da znaat deka i ovaa Imperija nema da bide vechna, kako i sekoja prethodna...shto ke pravat koga ke go nrma golemiot brat.
P.S. Bi ti preporachal da si go obnovish znaenjeto, vidi ubavo shto znachi Antisemitizam pa posle lepi etiketi...
Makedonija e super primer. Nie gi slusavme EU i SAD i sega imame teroristi vo nasata vlada, taka? Za, zal Izrael e daleku od Makedonija. Koga nasite vojnici gi kidnapiraa nie ne ni znaevme kade se i kako se, a ne pa vladata da ide da gi spasi, taka? Pak, za zal Izrael e daleku od Makedonija. Ova boli, megjutoa Izrael ima daleku poveke sila od Makedonija i ne mora da im nosi voda na EU i SAD.
Patem ti imas mnogu biseri vo tvojot post - CNN se protiv Izrael i ne se gledaat takvi gluposti ovde. (ke ti stane jasno koga sledniot pat ke gi narecat hizballah i hamas militanti, aktivisti i freedom fighters, kako i poveketo golemi novinski agencii).
Za informaciite, te molam jas sum ovde, mene mi zavisi zivotot od tie informacii, i ti mi vikas deka nemam pravi informacii tuku ti vo Canada imas? izvini, ama ova e klasicno 'catalenje'.
Izraelcite plakaat nad 30% taksi, od koi 80% odat vo armijata.
Jas neznam moze gledas Al Jazeera, ama radikalnite Arapi se kade mirot i razumot odat da umrat. Vsusnost, se ova zapocna so preminuvanje na granicata na izrael od hizballah i nivni napadi na IDF; kidnapiranje na vojnicite, i ubivanje na 8 istiot den. Ne ne, ajde da odime nekolku dena nanazad, frlanje raketi na Izrael vo jugot non stop, ili nekolku meseci pred toa, ubivanje na civili vo kafic vo Tel Aviv. Celta na radikalnite i Islamisticki Arapi e unistuvanjeto na evrejskata drzava, metodot e civilite, t.e nivno ubivanje i psiholosko vlijanie. Ova e Islamic terrorism 101, bi trebalo da go znaes.
Izrael kako sto napomenav nema konflikt so Liban (naprotiv, liban bese najbliska zemja vo bliskiot istok do demokratija pred ova) tuku so Hizballah koi ne se unisteni od Libanskata vlada (od strav od gragjanska vojna). Zatoa, Izrael gi predupreduva Libanskite gragjani pred sekoj napad (nie morame da se spremime za sirena od inteligencijata 60 sekundi odnapred). I pak ke ti kazam deka Izrael bombardira bazi na hizballah, patista, i aerodromite (aj pogodi zasto). Nikakvi bolnici ne im se meta. Ako Izrael prekine da bombardira znaes sto ke ni se sluci na nas, na mene i na site tie koi gi sakam?
Patem, dodeka ti go pisuvam ova ja tesam drugarka mi celo vreme deka majka i, tako i, baba i i kuceto :) koi se cel den vo skrivnica na severot ke bidat ok. I ti koj si tolku daleku od seto ova mi zboruvas za nekoi imperii i slicno.
Izrael nema nekoi si vizii za imperii; edinstveno sto Izrael saka e da go ostavat na mir i da mozat ovie luge ovde da ziveat bez strav vo svojata zemja.
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| Originally posted by NINOCHKA Izrael nema nekoi si vizii za imperii; edinstveno sto Izrael saka e da go ostavat na mir i da mozat ovie luge ovde da ziveat bez strav vo svojata zemja. |
pa zashto ima konflikt ako se ovie na svoja zemja i mirno pasat trevka??
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| a 80% od budgetot na Izrael odi vo armijata. |
nekako ne mi e jasno ova??(vo kontekst so prethodnoto quote)
Pina sugerirase deka US gi finansira IDF kompletno, zasto ne i/mu bese jasno od kade na takva mala drzava dovolno finansii za takva ogromna armija.
SydneyGuy (and those like-minded to him), please choose one of the following options:
a) More terorism
b) Less terorism;
Dolgotrajnata i zhestoka vozduhoplovno- artileriska kampanja nasochena strogo vrz infrastrukturata na juzhen Liban ukazhuva na mozhna predstojna izraelska invazija. Sudejkji spored se' posilniot intenzitet na bombardiranjata, samo prashanje na denovi e koga merkavite kje zarolaat niz Hezbolah Land. Samata libanska vlada priznava deka nema vojska na granicata so Izrael i deka de facto juzhen Liban e vo racete na Hezbolah. Dosega nemale prakjano vojska zaradi rizik od gragjanska vojna so shiitskoto malcinstvo shto zhivee vo juzhen Liban, iako UN so godini gi pritiska da pratat vojska i vospostavat suverenitet.
Ne deka zhidovskata populacija se nekoe cvekje za mirisanje, ama islamistite se tie shto se spremni na najbezochni i najsvirepi masovni ubistva...
Za toa vreme nashiot star poznanik, chichko Solana itno trknal vo Bejrut, za da neli vekje odbere strana. Vsushnost briselskite emirati i nemaat mnogu izbor...
p.s. dobrite palestinci denes frlaat qassam raketi kako ludi nad ashekelon, da znam i jas gi zalam....
celava rabota e so sosema druga cel i mozhebi Ninochka ke objasni.isto neka pogledne procenti na hristijani i pravoslavni vo taa drzhava i poginati drugi/stranski drzhavjani...
inaku za prashanjeto: kako mozhe "miroljubiva" zemja da dava 80% za armija? i od kade/zashto postoi Arab-Israeli conflict? (pa neka sporedi so MK)
jas lichno "sechenite" ne gi poddrzhuvam...
Izvini, ama na koi 'seceni' mislis? Obrezuvanjeto e edna od rabotite koja Islamot ja ima prezemeno od Judsaizmot :)
od kade/zasto postoi Arab-Israeli conflict e dolgo i tesko prasanje. Sega e 9 i vo 10 imam ispit, ama ja ova go ucam i otkako ke go zavrsam ispitot ke napisam dolg post so istorija i pricini za konfliktot od samiot pocetok (kralstvoto izrael i david pred 3000 godini :)
pozdrav :)
Tuku, ushte nekolku interesni detali:
-site "zainteresirani stranki" vo Liban si imaat svoi proxy: EU si operira preku oficijalnata libanska vlast, Iran i Sirija preku Hezbolah, samo Izrael nema proxy...
-Zhak Shirak povikal na prekin na ognot "zashto imalo 20 000 francuski biznismeni i turisti vo Liban" a bogami i zashto ima nezanemarlivo arapsko emigrantsko glasachko telo koe zimoska go zapali Pariz...
-batchushka Putin ispravno ukazhal deka kidnapiranite vojnici se povod...
Sepak sevo ova mirisa na uvertira pred invazija, sudejkji spored toa kakvi celi se gagjani od izraelska strana, upotrebenata ognena mokj i koordiniranosta na celata ofanziva...
Ako mozhat da se pravat nekakvi paraleli megju polozhbata na Izrael i Makedonija i od niv da se uchi, togash toa sekako e lekcijata za voeno-tehnoloshkata nadmokj: Izrael ubedlivo e voeno-tehnoloshki nadmokjen nad svoite arapski neprijateli, nieden od niv ne smee frontalno da mu se sprotivstavi na ochiglednata agresija vrz arapska teritorija. Voeno- tehnoloshkata nadmokj e taa shto kje gi natera mozhnite agresori da si gi zauzdaat svoite apetiti...
Srdechi pozdravi od Bejrut.
Da pocneme od pocetok, na ovaa teritorija nikogas nikogas ne postoela druga drzava osven Izrael, vodena od Evreite. po raspagjanjeto na kralstvoto na david sirijcite go unistuvaat Prviot Hram (koj bil lociran na rid vo Erusalem narecen Zion, od tamu Zionizam) i Izrael e podelen na dva dela: Izrael (gorniot del) i Judeja (dolniot). Vo tekot na vladeenjeto na Rimskata imperija, Evreite non stop im sozdavaat problemi na rimjanite so nekoisi revolucii da se oslobodat od Rimskata imperija. Poradi toa Rimjanite koristat ime na pleme neprijatel na izrael (falistincite) za da gi nalutat Evreite go davaat imeto Palestina na provincijata. Potoa Rimjanite go unistuvaat Vtoriot Hram (na cie mesto sega e izgradena eden od najgolemite hramovi na Muslimanite, i e ostanat samo zapadniot zid od Hramot -Zid na placot- koj do den denes e najsveto mesto za Evreite) i gi proteruvaat Evreite od Izrael. Od tuka pocnuva 2000 godisniot egzil na Evreite po svetot. od togas pa se ponataka se naseluvaat arapite i evrejskata populacija se namaluva se poveke i poveke (ne mi e poznato tocno zasto). Arapite megjutoa nikogas ne osnovale svoja drzava ovde.
Od ponistuvanjeto na kralstvoto na Izrael do sozdavanjeto na moderen Izrael, ovaa teritorija bila sekogas samo provincija na razni imperii (rimska, osmanska, francuska, britanska i na kraj UN).
Od 1881 godina vo Rusija (kade bila skoncentrirana najgolemata evrejska populacija vo Evropa) se pojavuvaat pogromi (hristijani koi ubivaat Evrei poradi toa sto , spored niv, ovie go ubile Isus). Evreite od Rusija (napusteni od nivnite socijalisticki partneri) se pod postojan strav i ubivanja od pogromite. Se pojavuva Lilienblum (ruski Evrein koj gi gleda stradanjata na Evreite niz Ruskata imperija) i ja zema dolgo zaboraventa idea (ideologija) za Erez Israel (zemjata na Izraelot: deka Evreite pripagaat vo ovaa zemja). Se sozdava Zionizmot (evrejski sekularen nacionalizam) i pocnuva prvata aliyah (vrakanje na Evreite od egzil vo Erez Israel, bukvalno znaci iskacuvanje).
Vo 1917 godina, kralicata na Anglija ispraka oficijalna deklaracija za predavanje na Britanskiot mandat Palestina poradi solidacija so Zionistite pod uslov da mozat grupite koi veke ziveat na ova teritorija da ostanat ziveejki vo mir(Balfour declaration).
Maj 4, 1948 godina eden den po osnovanjeto na Izrael, site sosedi plus drugi Arapski drzavi go napagaat Izrael - Independence War.
Vo 1967 godina Egipet go napaga Izrael, Izrael vozvraka i se vklucuvaat i nekoi drugi zemji. Izrael ja unistuva cela armija na Egipet za 6 dena, zatoa se vika 6 dnevna vojna.
Po ovaa vojna ON ja objavuva rezolucija na ON 242 (two state solution, pola teritorija za Izrael i pola za Arapska drzava, so Erusalem kako internacionalen grad). Bidejki Arapite niz cela istorija sakaat 100% site Arapski zemji glasaat protiv rezolucijata.
Od tuka nataka ima uste vojni protiv Izrael i teroristicki napadi.
Za prvpat glavnite sponzori na Hezbolah najavuvaat deka se podgotveni za otstapki:
"Hezbollah patron Iran said a cease-fire and a prisoner swap were possible, and the international community signaled willingness to send peacekeepers to back a diplomatic solution."
Kako beshe onaa, "chovek razbira od zbor, a stoka od stap"... taka nekako mu doagja...
The stubbornness of past Israeli governments to come to a compromise that both sides can live with is the cause for the current conflict. If the Israeli government had acted in good faith and made a genuine attempt to reach a compromise then there would not be any need for HAMAS or Hezbollah to resort to kidnapping of Israeli soldiers.
Does anybody truly believe that the Palestinian people are evil people and all they want is a war with Israel? Let's get real here. The Palestinian people want what other people want: the right to self-determination, the right to create a future for their children and the right to a peaceful existense. I believe that the Israeli people want those things, too. So what's stopping all this from happening? The answer to that question is this: an Israeli government which is determined to be as radical as the recently elected Palestinian HAMAS government.
The Israeli government doesn't want to be seen as being soft on terrorism and that's the very reason why they initiated this conflict in Southern Lebanon. But they went overboard with their actions. Everybody can see that the force they are using is an overkill. Hezbollah wanted the Israel government to react this way - and they knew they would react this way. Hezbollah wants to be seen as the victim here so they will get sympathy from all around the world. Even terrorist organisations need support or otherwise the resources they keep getting will soon run out.
The only way to bring an end to this conflict AND to make sure it never has to happen again is for the Israeli government and the HAMAS government to resume peace negotiations and to come to a compromise that both sides can walk away with without feeling like they have lost face. If both sides keep this in mind then they won't try to press too hard to get too many concessions from the opposing side.
Many uneducated and technical mistakes in your post. Let me clarify:
For the hundreth time, after the 6 day war, there was a two state proposition, one Israeli and one Arab with Jerusalem as an international city (UN Resolution 242), only the Arab countries voted against it.
Israel cannot occupy anything Palestinian because nothing ever belonged to the Palis.
The fundamental issue is not whether the Palis should protect, fight for their cause but it's rather how they do it and what they do. they don't fight the army, they fight civilians.
Now, when you kill innocent people at a pizza parlour in Jerusalem, or at a wedding in Amman, Jordan it's not self determination and what not; it's terrorism.
Hamas' and Hizballah's main goal is the destruction of the Jewish state, all of it - speak of being relentless...
The Palestinian people cannot be generalized as terrorists, or warmongers, they are far more complex. Their problems have been accumulating for a long, long time, and it's all because of their continous mistakes.
The Israeli government launched it's defense on Hizballah, initially, because they kidnapped two of our soldiers, in return they wanted Israel to free thousands of their terrorists, which sane government would release killers of their own people? Then the Hizballah started firing katyushot missiles at the north, again do we just sit and let them kill us?
Overkill? Bull**it. The IDF is using merely 15% of it's full strength. Actually, the reason it's taking them days to take out the Hizballah is because they are following a strict plan in order not to kill many civilians or damage Lebanon beyond remedy. Israel is not levelling anything because the whole world is bitching at Israel.
Hizballah is not getting any support, in fact all Arab nations seem united in blaming Syria and Iran for supporting the Hizballah. Oh and, Iran has just sent it's FM to Damascus who has asked the Hizballah to "curb their attacks and release IDF soldiers".
Hamas is still reluctant to recognize the Jewish state, not to mention negotiate anything.
Learn at least something about the Middle East, please.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SydneyGuy The fundamental issue here is whether the Palestinian people are entitled to fight for their land... |
So SydneyGuy, what is it going to be:
a)more terrorism, or
b)less terrorism
Cannot wait to read your answer...
Палестински народ, ниту палестинска нација не постојат. Се е тоа арапска измислица. Пред создавањето на Израел никогаш не се говорело за Палестинци. Пред Втората Светска Војна територијата на Израел и Јордан била британски протекторат и се нарекувала Палестина. Значи Палестина е и Израел и Јордан. 1948. предложено е план во ОН за создавање на две држави на територијата на денешен Израел. Одбиен е од арапската страна, која што не била подготвена за компромис и не се согласувала со постоењето на било каква еврејска држава. Го попушиле, и тоа многу јако.
1967. Арапите повторно го одбиваат мировниот план и создавањето на палестинска држава. Повторно го дудлаат, сега уште појако. Читајте погоре кај Ниночка за 6-дневната војна.
И што велите, како смее Израел да напаѓа една суверена држава како Либан. Е па, ако Либан е суверена држава, тогаш нека воспостави контрола на целокупната своја територија.
Што велите, христијани гинеле во нападите на Израел. Ако се тоа христијани со идеи на чичко Адолф, воопшто нема да ми биде жал. Израел го бомбардираше исклучиво јужниот дел на Бејрут, каде што живеат шиити и каде што дејствува Хизболах. Христијаните живеат во западниот и во северниот дел на Бејрут. Тоа се Маронити, кои што припаѓаат на римо-католичката црква. Во Либан има релативно малку православни христијани. Многу повеќе православци има во Сирија.
Мој предлог за делумно решение на проблемот, барем со Либан: погром на муслиманското население, создавање услови за враќање на сите либански христијани од Америка и Европа и создавање на арапска христијанска држава. Либан со големо мнозинство христијанско население ќе представува одлична пуфер зона и нема да претставува воена закана за Израел.
Со муслимани, а особено со Арапи не може да се преговара. Тие се задоени со нивната исламофашистичка идеологија и презираат се немуслиманско. Секој обид за преговор или компромис од страна на својот партнер го сметаат како слабост. Затоа само остро. Израел ги влече вистинските потези. И минатото го покажува тоа. После добар ќотек козоебачите си молчат за одреден период. Штом почне Израел да прави отстапки, овие уште повеќе се засилуваат. Се повелече ли Израел од Газа и од југот на Либан? Да. И што сакаат сега козоебачите? Зашто не го остават Евреите во мир? Затоа што не сакаат мир. Посакуваат целосно уништување на еврејскиот народ.
Удри Израел, тепај, маме им е.ам нивно козоебачко. Шалом до Ниночка, а останатите нека читаат Mein Kampf од чичко Адолф.
Mnogu zemji isprakaat brodovi vo liban koi Izrael im dozvoluva da gi izvadat svoite gragjani. Treba da se prijavat tvoite prijateli vo nivnata amabasada. Dokolku seuste nemozat da izlezat od liban, neka odat naj severno sto mozat vo liban i neka se osiguraat deka tamu kade sto se nema punktovi, zgradi, magacini i raketni frlaci na hizballah.
Vo sekoj slucaj Izrael ke prestane da bombardira za 1 do 2 nedeli.
ova mi se dopagja! neka go imaat site vo predvid koga zborime za Makedonija.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Der_Beste И што велите, како смее Израел да напаѓа една суверена држава како Либан. Е па, ако Либан е суверена држава, тогаш нека воспостави контрола на целокупната своја територија. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Der_Beste Удри Израел, тепај, маме им е.ам нивно козоебачко. Шалом до Ниночка, а останатите нека читаат Mein Kampf од чичко Адолф. |
imase eden mnogu dobar vic za Adolf.
Nekoj covek bil na gledacka da mu gleda i ona mu rekla deka on ke bide venovnikot i ke treba da ja prevzeme cela odgovornost bidejki poradi nego milioni lujge ke umrat.
Otkoga gledackata mu go kazal toa i zavrsila so gledanje, on si zaminal i se setal pokraj keot na nekoja reka i celo vreme se mislel za toa sto gledackata mu go kazala , kako sto setal pocnal da slusa glas : Pomos !!! Pomos !!! Pomos !!! i videl kako malo dete se davi vo rekata.
Covekot skoknal i go spasil deteto i go izvadil od rekata , otkoga go spasil majkata se doblizila do covekot i mu rekla na deteto:
- Adolf cedo majkino, kazi mu fala na cickoto sto ti go spasi zivotot.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA zlotty, Mnogu zemji isprakaat brodovi vo liban koi Izrael im dozvoluva da gi izvadat svoite gragjani. Treba da se prijavat tvoite prijateli vo nivnata amabasada. Dokolku seuste nemozat da izlezat od liban, neka odat naj severno sto mozat vo liban i neka se osiguraat deka tamu kade sto se nema punktovi, zgradi, magacini i raketni frlaci na hizballah. Vo sekoj slucaj Izrael ke prestane da bombardira za 1 do 2 nedeli. |
Ninocka, oni ne capnaa na Izraelska teritoriaja, no bea na letovite na JAT za Dubai pa posle so Emirates za Sydney. JAT za Dubai pravi stop vo Beirut, samo znam deka letot ne bil realiziran taka da oni ke pristigant so dva dena zadocnuvanje momentalno se naojgaat Kuala Lumpur i se na waiting list za sydney. Kako i da e fala na sovetot , a toa e tocno procitav deka site pravat planovi za evakuiranje na nivnoto naselenie , so brodovi , helihopteri ili nesto slicno. Vcera i Deneska premnogu Libanci pristignaa Sydney koj kako se snasol trgnal pa zatoa sekade na site aziski komapnii koj sto letaat interkontinental the system e prebrukiran i ne se znae koj na koj let e . Deneska se poodobri situacijata.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA Vo sekoj slucaj Izrael ke prestane da bombardira za 1 do 2 nedeli. |
otkako ke gi vratat ushte 50 godini nazad i ke pridonesat za nov bran na nasilstva,terorizam,fundamentalizam...pa potoa pak (za nekoe vreme) ke napadnat i pak Ninochka ke tvrdi deka: ke prestane da bombardira za 1 do 2 nedeli
interesno
davajte ushte!p.s; Ninocka se naojga vo Israel ili ? Bidejki pisuva location Israel???
| quote: | ||
Originally posted by zlotty_co_380
Ninocka, oni ne capnaa na Izraelska teritoriaja, no bea na letovite na JAT za Dubai pa posle so Emirates za Sydney. JAT za Dubai pravi stop vo Beirut, samo znam deka letot ne bil realiziran taka da oni ke pristigant so dva dena zadocnuvanje momentalno se naojgaat Kuala Lumpur i se na waiting list za sydney. Kako i da e fala na sovetot , a toa e tocno procitav deka site pravat planovi za evakuiranje na nivnoto naselenie , so brodovi , helihopteri ili nesto slicno. Vcera i Deneska premnogu Libanci pristignaa Sydney koj kako se snasol trgnal pa zatoa sekade na site aziski komapnii koj sto letaat interkontinental the system e prebrukiran i ne se znae koj na koj let e . Deneska se poodobri situacijata. |
Злоти, дали е вистина дека на Арапите не им треба виза за Австралија?
А јас таман се спремив да одам до АЛДИ да се изнакупувам чипс и пиво.
Andorra
Austria
Belgium
Brunei
Canada
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hong Kong SAR
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Malta
Monaco
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
San Marino
Singapore
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
United States Of America
Vatican City
mozete da aplicirate online tuka : http://www.eta.immi.gov.au/ETAAus1En.html
ako zaglavite nekade kazete ke pomogneme ne e problem toa.
#1513;#1500;#1493;#1501; Der Beste! :)
Der Beste, (ne mi ispadna hebrejskiot shalom :) da, Izrael ke bombardira uste 1-2 nedeli. Do sega se unisteni 50% od mokta na Hizballah.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA Zlotty, da jas ziveam vo Izrael #1513;#1500;#1493;#1501; Der Beste! :) |
mmmmmm malce cudno , pa togas vo koj del si tamu, po tolku bombardiranje kako uste telfonska linija ima / adsl /internet polno raboti se unisteni. Da ne si vo nesto ambasada? Kako i da e dobra ti srejka ama jas ne bi sedel tamu vo vakva situacija koja e vise od alarmantna.
Vo Izrael uspeaa da bombardiraat do sega samo 3 zgradi na sever (isfrlija okolu 500 katyushot raketi na Izrael od koi 450 sletaa vo vozduh i more, swiss precision :)
Jas ziveam vo centralen Izrael, 10 km severno od Tel Aviv, i hizballah dokolku iskoristi nekoja od dolg range raketite koi gi imaat seuste (od maliot broj koj go imaa) ili anti misilite na armijata ke gi unistat ili ke uspeat da pogodat ednas do dva pati maksimum. Vo megjuvreme, idam na plaza preku den, navecer iskacam, i treba da ucam za zal :)
vo Liban nema adsl i telefoni pretezno i tamu e golemata opasnost, ne vo Izrael. Iako imam drugari vo liban i si pravime muabet na msn momentalno :)
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA zlotty, Mnogu zemji isprakaat brodovi vo liban koi Izrael im dozvoluva da gi izvadat svoite gragjani. Treba da se prijavat tvoite prijateli vo nivnata amabasada. Dokolku seuste nemozat da izlezat od liban, neka odat naj severno sto mozat vo liban i neka se osiguraat deka tamu kade sto se nema punktovi, zgradi, magacini i raketni frlaci na hizballah. Vo sekoj slucaj Izrael ke prestane da bombardira za 1 do 2 nedeli. |
Izrael e eden najgolem prijatel na MK i nemoj nekoj da mi go kritikuva .
Edino izrael moze da se sprotistavi na teroristi
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA Toni, toni :)osven nekoi radikalni Islamisti, duri i Arapite sfatija deka tie koi go vrakaat Liban 20 (ne 50) godini nanazad se Hizballah a ne Izrael. |
so rushenje na civilna infrastruktura?
nego vikash 20 godini,a za da se postigne ona shto bi se postignalo ako nemalo da ima napad?
site onie "koi svatile" shto mislish shto ke napravat otkako ke im bide srushena kukjata i ubien chlen od semejstvoto?
nemoj za evreite da mi zborish...oni toa go sakaat shto go pravat zatoa shto im odgovara na politikata.
kolku ima poginato vo teroristichki napadi vo izrael vo "mirno vreme" i kolku poginaa sega za kratko vreme?
500.000 vo begstvo...pa ti rachunaj sega.
ps-so pomosh na USA...aj malku nanazad misli... koj i kogo poddrzhuvashe i podrzhuva amerika??
Ti sugeriras deka Izrael cisto rekreativno resi da se bombardira Izrael i da se zadade nenormalen udar na ekonomijata?
I samiot kazuvas deka vo Izrael i vo mirno vreme umiraat luge od teroristicki napadi, i sto ne ti e jasno vo vrska so slednava recenica: Izrael nema da dozvoli nekoi ludaci da go unistuvaat.
Neznam kakvi svetski zagovori imas na pamet, fino ti napisav istorija na arab-israeli konflikt; izrael e sekogas napagjan od necivilizirani ludaci, ne e Izrael toj koj napaga.
jas pishav deka: zatoa shto im odgovara na politikata.
evreite sekogash li se vo pravo? oni negreshat i ovaa situacija e edinstveniot mozhen izlez i reshenie?
sigurno amerika gi manipulira evreite za da si go troshat ovie oruzhjeto...
Zasto bi sakala amerika eden od retkite jaki sojuznici koi go imaat da si go trosi oruzjeto?
Apsolutno Izrael ne e sovrsen. Edinstveni sovrseni zemji se Kuba i Sirija, samo tamu nikogas nema problemi.
Ajde, toni sakam od tebe da mi dades alternativno a sepak efektivno resenie na situacijava.
Zasto bi sakala amerika eden od retkite jaki sojuznici koi go imaat da si go trosi oruzjeto?
Apsolutno Izrael ne e sovrsen. Edinstveni sovrseni zemji se Kuba i Sirija, samo tamu nikogas nema problemi.
Ajde, toni sakam od tebe da mi dades alternativno a sepak efektivno resenie na situacijava.
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| Originally posted by NINOCHKA Toni, Zasto bi sakala amerika eden od retkite jaki sojuznici koi go imaat da si go trosi oruzjeto? |
za da USA prodava i proizveduva novo,koe pak tie samite im go finansiraat itn...jas mislam deka evreite se igrachka vo racete na imperijata USA.shto ke kazhesh za ova?
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| Ajde, toni sakam od tebe da mi dades alternativno a sepak efektivno resenie na situacijava. |
ramkoven dogovor.kako vo Makedonija shto e reshena rabotava.so pomosh na MZ i USA...
Ozbilno te gubam. USA da proizveduva novo oruzje i da im go dava na Izrael - zasto zasto USA bi gi koristela evreite kako igracka? ti vikas toa e za da gi finansira celo vreme??? stvarno neznam sto sakas da kazes.
Vo Makedonija,navidum, Albancite baraa poveke prava. Sto baraat Hizballah? Navidum da se oslobodat nivnite teroristi; e ajde formuliraj mi go, ramkovno samo, tvojov ramkoven dogovor?!
nego aj ostaj toa so finansiranjeto...amerika prodava oruzhje na israel.za da ima biznis dobar treba toa da se troshi i modernizira.znaeme deka so pishtol ne se sadat cvekjinja ili deka so bomba ne se kopa bavcha.
znachi amerika go "manipulira" regionot za da ima BIZNIS so oruzhje koj e dosta lukrativen.shto ke kazhesh za ova?
a kako dobar klient ima politichka poddrshka za israel od usa.zatoa nikoj ne gi chepka i zatoa nekoi "piunchinja" arabski se protiv terorizmot...
znachi amerikancive gi motaat evreite.shto vikash??
beshe spomnato KONTROLA na teritorija.kako da vospostavi Libija kontrola koga nivni kazarni,vojnici i infrastruktura se unishteni i e predizvikana humanitarna katastrofa???
(pishav vekje 500.000 begaat)
Prvata recenica ja citam 8 pati i pak ne sfakam sto sakas da kazes.
Idejata za americkite oruzja e veke slusnata, fala bogu, interesna i ne se aplicira ovde. Zasto? Zatoa sto Izrael si gi proizveduva oruzjata so koi e momentalno napagan Liban, eve toa ti go kazuvam.
Bidejki ideava so oruzjata ti padna, koja e drugata pricina sto evreite se igracka na US dodeka ovie gi poddrzuvaat vo se? U sekoj slucaj vrskata pomegu US i Izrael ne e bitna za tvojata teorija.
Libanskata vlada rece deka ke prati svoja vojska na jug,ne pratija. Liban veke 20 godini vika deka ke vospostavi kontrola na granicata i ne vospostavija. (nivnite vojnici, btw, ne se unisteni :)
Pa toa sto ke go posadis toa ke go dobies, veke napomenav deka imaat 20 godini Libancite da se resat so Hizballah, zasto im dozvolija da se stigne do 'humanitarna katastrofa'?
Tuku, zasto begas od temata?
Ramkata na tvojot ramkoven dogovor e sto?
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| Originally posted by toni_a ... beshe spomnato KONTROLA na teritorija.kako da vospostavi Libija kontrola koga nivni kazarni,vojnici i infrastruktura se unishteni i e predizvikana humanitarna katastrofa??? (pishav vekje 500.000 begaat) |
Pa mozhebi niz EU "mediumite" gi iskrivuvaat rabotite i kje izlezat vakvi nekoi komentari.
Kontrolata na teritorijata na juzhen Liban e barana od Izrael, US i ona shto nie go sfakjame kako MZ ushte od potpishuvanjeto na mirovniot dogovor od '90-tite. Libanskata vlada toa ne go napravi dosega zaradi "strav od nova gragjanska vojna, ovojpat Suniti vs. Shiiti" (linijata na pomal otpor tolku pati promovirana od EU). Rezultat- granicata so Izrael se pretvora vo igralishte na Hezbolah...
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Originally posted by achtung_panzer
Kontrolata na teritorijata na juzhen Liban e barana od Izrael, |
Sakas da kazes Izrael saka da go okupira j liban?
ako ima zhelba za mir i miroljubivo reshenie toa ke se postigne.nekoj ili ke plati povekje (ke napravi pogolema otstapka) ili nekoj mozhebi ke "kjari" neshto...
vazhnoto e deka MOZHE da se postigne mir.osobeno ako se javi nekoj najsilen i im nalozhi pravila na skaranite partii.isto kako vo MK.potpishaa politicharite nashi...
se nadevam deka sega e pojasno,poshto neznam ushte kolku da doobjasnuvam okolku prvava rechenica?
RAMKATA e zhelba za stabilnost,mir,napredok,sozhivot itn...no nitu ednite nitu drugite imaat barem malku dobra volja.so toa gi stavam sechenite na edno isto nivo.kozo-ebachi protiv kozo-ebachi.
ne sum jas tamu da im diktiram uslovi.toa treba MZ da go napravi.
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| Bidejki ideava so oruzjata ti padna, koja e drugata pricina sto evreite se igracka na US dodeka ovie gi poddrzuvaat vo se? U sekoj slucaj vrskata pomegu US i Izrael ne e bitna za tvojata teorija. |
| quote: |
| Tuku, zasto begas od temata? |
koj bega od temata,jas ili ti? kazhi za manipulacijata na USA vo regionot i nad evreite i ne begaj vo "nedorazbiranja"
na koi regioni se ogranichuva israel? samo na "problematichnite" ili celata zemja/drzhava ja peplosaa? i dali pomognaa na Libija da se spravi so problemot ili naprotiv,pomognaa za razgoruvanje na fundamentalizam i sekakva netrpelivost?
vrskite usa-israel,dali se drzhat evreite okolu site pravila za atomsko oruzhje koe go poseduvaat...nemoj i za oruzhjeto
AWACS,Apache,Cobra ,F-16,shpionazhni sateliti...ili kazhi ,mozhe ima neshto pointeresno od evrejsko proizvodstvo.ne izbegnuvam,tuku sakam i malku pozadi fasadata da se pogledne 
Prvo zemjata e Liban, a ne Libija.
Vtoro muabetot e deka ova sto Izrael go pravi e edinstvenoto razumno i efektivno resenie za problemot.
Avionite se pretezno Amerikanski, ama tie ne se bas oruzjeto! Odnosno tie ne se toa stro se trosi non stop; ne e voopsto bitno koj e odnosot, neli pravime muabet za tvojot ramkoven dogovor.
a Ramkovniov dogovor ti e :) samo edno ke te prasam na koja droga si? :)
Koj mir, sozhivot, dobra volja i cvekinja so hizballah? oni sakaa sozhivot i prava kako Albancite? ili sakaa da im oslobodi Izrael teroristi? ili sugeriras deka treba Izrael da ima sozhivot so teroristite? :)
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| Originally posted by toni_a kozo-ebachi protiv kozo-ebachi. |
Sto bese ova?
| quote: |
| muabetot e deka ova sto Izrael go pravi e edinstvenoto razumno i efektivno resenie za problemot |
kozo-ebachi protiv kozo-ebachi do beskraj.neka ginat.
USA-Israel ???
Gledas i samiot nemas odgovor za tvojot predlog (da se napravi nekoj ramkoven dogovor).
si ima lugje koi se plateni za toa.izgleda se navistina do tolku "ogranicheni" da gledaat samo edno: IZLEZ VO VOJNA
mislev deka evreite imaat malku povekje pamet i deka se razlikuvaat od shvabite od porano...nikakva razlika! karikaturata e sosema na mesto shto ja postirav.od istiot mentalitet i um e crtana.
Be the change you want to see in the world - Gandhi
,a na drugo mesto so tazhen lik: pa samo ushte edna dve nedeli ke bombardiraat.vojnata e edinstven izlez itn.
Ti rekov da kazes kakov ramkoven dogovor bi bil efikasen, ocigledno nemas odgovor za toa, zatoa ne kazuvaj deka postoi drugo resenie osven da se brani Izrael.
Hizballah ne se diplomatski nastroeni, zatoa preminuvaa granici na Izrael i od cista mira kidnapiraa vojnici, toa mene ne mi zvuci kako volja za nekojsi ramkoven dogovor.
Toa deka Evreite se isti kako hitler ti e mnogu staro i ignorantno, bidi barem pokreativen.
dvojna(po potreba) interpretacija/razbiranje na Gandi i istovremeno nudenje na "samo" edinstveniot "izlez": VOJNA
si zapnala kako za stap po toj ramkoven.ti kazhav togash,neka ginat "diplomatski i strateshki".eve jas za evreite ke navivam...
Ne rekov deka resenieto e sekogas vojna, naprotiv vojna sekogas treba da bide posledno resenie; Megjutoa isto taka vo nekoi situacii E edinstvenoto resenie; hizballah pak ke ti povtoram e teroristicka organizacija cija cel e unistuvanje na Izrael, ne se zainteresirani za nikakov mir i Izrael ne e vo vojna so drzava (vojnata ne e protiv Liban).
Edna od strategiite na Hizballah e krienje pozadi civili i toa e edinstvena pricina zasto ima civilni zrtvi vo Liban. Vsusnost Hizballah ne ni pusta ziteli od jugot da pobegnat. Plus, Izrael pred sekoj napad gi predupreduva gragjanite.
Ne zaboravaj deka Izrael e zrtvata ovde, Hizballah se tie koi namerno (probuvaat) da ubijat Izraelski civili.
quote: Izrael pred sekoj napad gi predupreduva gragjanite
hmmm,za da mozhat zeni i deca da izbegaat,a teroristite da bidat bombardirani!!! DA,taka e! pa daj neka predupredat i edna atomska da roknat!! najbrzo reshenie,nema da se zamaraat.
Izrael e zrtvata,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ,Izrael e zrtvata ....
da ti pomognam malku poshto i jas navivam za zhrtvata !!! lele grevchinja...Izrael e zrtvata!
quote:alternativno a sepak efektivno resenie na situacijava?
sekoe drugo reshenie osven vojna e alternativno i poefektivno.no ne na vakov nachin kako shto toa sega se pravi!
na fintite mislam deka site otrpnaa vekje.kaj nas UCK beshe zhrtvata i se iznaslushav za cel zhivot.germancite pred vojnata isto bea zhrtvata.bugarite bea zhrtvata i osloboditelite...dosta e vekje so takvi smeshki.
eve ti od oblasta na strategijata i diplomatijata predlozhi neshto
jas kako razotkrien "antisemit" samo bi baral otstapki od evreite...
eve,koga ke prekinat so napadi evreite i shto planiraat za ponataka?
(ps-trgnuvame od reshenieto koe bilo PRAVILNO i taka bilo napraveno.znachi shto ponataka?)
Bas toa ti go kazav, nema drugo efikasno resenie, i rekov ako mislis deka ima zasto ne kazes koe e? ti dokazav deka nema drugo resenie.
Kakvi otstapki baras? da se ubijat izraelskite vojnici i drugi izraelci koga napagaat ovie? slobodno da me ubijat i mene? zasto ti stitis teroristi?
Izrael ja otstranuva opasnosta od raketi frlani na izrael (do sega 1500 btw). Zadacata na Izrael kako i na sekoja vlada e da gi brani interesite na svoite gragjani, edinstveno vo ovoj slucaj site gragjani imaat ista cel (samo vo ovoj slucaj :) - nivniot zivot.
znachi toa "reshenie" shto e primenuvano vo nekolku pati ne bilo reshenie.zatoa shto ako bilo vistinsko/pravilno reshenie nemalo da imame konflikt sega.
jas sepak ti vikam da trgneme od situacija deka e pravilna postapkata na Israel.deka ke gi oslobodat dvata zarobenika i deka ke peplosaat i unishtat...znachi military mission complited.
shto ponataka? ke ja drzhat zemjata pod okupacija? ke se spakuvaat i ke si trgnat? shto ke pravat muslimanive ponataka??
ednostavno me interesira toa reshenie kako KRAJNO RESHENIE.ne koj i zashto predizvikal nekakva POSTAPKA/REAKCIJA.koj pochnal,shto,zashto itn...da go ostavime na strana.
otkako ke spasat dva vojnika shto ke pravat israelcite?
Nemaat sto da spakuvaat zasto seuste se napaga samo vozdusno, koga ke pratat zemni trupi ako pratat, togas da ke se spakuvaat i ke si otidat otkako Izrael gi unisti silite na Hizballah i se vratat vojnicite. Izrael nema da go okupira Liban nikogas.
Izrael i Liban ke imaat mir, dali ke bide zasekogas ili samo za 10 godini? zavisi od toa dali Liban pak ke dozvoli teroristi da operiraat od Liban (mislam deka nema da go dozvolat toa).
Dodeka za radikalnite muslimani... Hizballah nema da bide zakana barem za 10 godini. A drugite... interesno prasanje koga ke prekine terorizmot? kako ke se prekine? mislam deka nema da se sluci toa se do sudirot na civilizaciite.
Nemoze Izrael da gi unisti site teroristi, megjutoa ke gi unisti onie koi se iminentna zakana za Izraelcite.
sepak ok,chekame mir shto ke trae barem 10 godini ,se razbira posle napadive.
Samo sakam da znam edna rabota. Sto profitiraat makedoncite od `izraelofilija`. Da ne i pomaga Izrael na Makedonija?
Posle site ovie ubivanja Izrael neka si je e,be majkata so celoto oruzje sto go ima. Neka ide u picku mater!
PS: Krivo mi e zosto Izrael ja iskoristuva Amerika. Za oruzje, materijalna pomos i se. Sto dobiva amerika od seto toa samo poveke dusmani.
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| Originally posted by sanctus Sto profitiraat makedoncite od `izraelofilija`. Da ne i pomaga Izrael na Makedonija? |
abe MK e satelit na USA pa so toa avtomatski i na Israel.ke pagja kjutek od "bratcheto" ,shto ne` braneshe, ako se zbori protiv Israel.nesmee taka,oni se zhrtvi.
nego chekame USA-Israel-connection da ni bide objasneta!
Ninochka mora da e nekoj postar semestar chim dosta raboti i bea poznati okolu antisemitizmot,hitler,zastareni muabeti,kreativnost itn...i idealno se vklopi vo evrejska smislena predrasuda: ako kritizirash evrei si antisemit ili veruvash vo svetski zagovor! ni dve ni tri,bam! i gotovo.nema drugo.aaaa,drogata ke ja zaboravev mora pretpazlivo,kako na jajca da se gazi, za da ne se povredi krevkata evrejska dusha...
a evreite kako im se smeat ,gi vregjaat i omalovazhuvaat arabite? ubavo rekov,istiot odnos shto shvabite go imaa kon niv sega samite tie go praktikuvaat...
Ninochka,si pravite muabeti tamu od stilot: "kaj shto smrdi i e prljavo zhiveat arabi!"??
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| Originally posted by Der_Beste И што велите, како смее Израел да напаѓа една суверена држава како Либан. Е па, ако Либан е суверена држава, тогаш нека воспостави контрола на целокупната своја територија. |
So does this mean that if Hezbollah was based in America (or on some other territory controlled by America) and were launching missilies from there aimed at Israel then does that mean that Israel would have attacked America? The bottom line is this: Israel is attacking Lebanon because it can get away with it. Because there are no equivalent consequences for Israel. We all know that Israel wouldn't even think about attacking another country if that other country had a superior military to theirs. So they are attacking a weaker country because they are cowards. That's the modus operandi of a coward.
As I stated earlier, it was Israel who agreed to establish the Palestinian Authority. Why did they do it if they were so certain that the Palestinian had no territorial rights to that region? They must have had at least some sense of guilt for occupying the Palestinian people's land, otherwise they would not have agreed to it. People don't just give up their land because they feel like it - they do it because they feel that they are not entitled to it. Nobody here has addressed this issue so far.
As far as any UN resolutions go, most of those resolutions have been favourable to Israel because, as the saying goes, 'He who has the gold makes the rules'. We all know that America has been dominating the UN since it was established. And America always proposes and supports UN resolutions that are favourable to Israel.
Another reason why Israel established the Palestinian Authority was because, sooner or later, the Palestinian people would have outnumbered the Israeli people in Israel and that would have meant that the Israelis would have become a minority in their own country. This would have meant that the Palestinian people would have been entitled to democratically rule over the Israeli people. So this was a self-serving act on the part of the Israeli people.
The reason why HAMAS and Hezbollah are resorting to attacking civilians in Israel is because they don't have an army which is armed by America like Israel has. So they have to resort to fighting a war on their terms. If you look at the history of all oppressed people who have struggled to achieve independence from a country with a military that was superior to their own then you'll see that they almost always resort to attacking civilians. This is nothing new. That doesn't mean that I condone it, it just means that I recognise that they have no other choice. Everybody fights a war on the terms that they think gives them the best chance of achieving their objectives. Even Israel does it - it's just that Israel chooses other means to achieve their objectives.
Najtragicnoto vo seto ova, e deka sekoja evropska drzava i drugi ko Amerika na primer so imat svoi gragani tamu prat se vo nivna moznost da gi izvadat od tamu, te brodoj, te avtobusi... I nisto loso vo to, navisitna nisto, ama so ke bidi so lugeto so nemat vtora drzava. Ako se potrudese svetot barem malku poke i na ova vtoroto mozi ke napraese i nekoja razlika za lugeto i vo Liban, Izrael & Palestina. Ama so e vazno to, daleku od oci, daleku od srce e rabotata.
They did this because George Washington was smart enough to realise that his army wasn't powerful enough (in terms of size, weapons and ammunition) to take on the British forces. So what George Washington's army did instead was to take on smaller targets, one by one. Unfortunately, some of those 'targets' were civilians. This makes him and his liberation army nothing but a bunch of terrorists. But try to convince George W. Bush to pass a law that declares George Washington a terrorist and you'll most likely get a good laugh out of him.
Well come on chief, it is a no-brainer and you still haven't figured it out?! More terrorism or less, what is your prefference...
Tonka, pa ne deka niz arapskite maala mirisa na ruzhi... za tie shto lesno lepat etiketi na tugji grbovi, pa istiot kov na lugje shto se zgrozuva nad izraelskite bombardiranja i se najglasni vo kritikata vrz Izrael kje zalepat etiketa "antisemitizam" i razni drugi i slichni zhivopisni lepenki vo prvata shansa shto kje ja vidat vo nekoj drug kontekst. Toa se tie bleskavi momenti na mentalniot kov kojshto za sebe misli deka nauchil i videl se' i sega mozhe da im sudi na site drugi.
Koj kolku i za shto e vo pravo ili ne, koga kje vidish na shto se' se spremni Hezbolah i voopshto Team Green i istorijata na "uspesi" na islamizmot vo masovno ubivanje lugje na najsvirep nachin nasekade niz svetot, koi im se celite, itn., ne mozhesh a da ne go poddrzhish nivniot poraz. Ednostavno ne ti ostavaat izbor; se' shto ne e Team Green spored niv treba ili da umre ili da pozeleni. E pa neka gi nosi matnata...
Inaku deka opsezhnata izraelska vozdushno- artileriska ofanziva e uvertira vo invazija denes mala potvrda: Izrael ispratil malubrojna peshadiska prethodnica "od chisto lokalen karakter"- povekje tuka. I eden mal i intriganten del od napisot kon koj pokazhuva linkot:
>>The army's deputy chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Moshe Kaplinski, said Israel has not ruled out deploying "massive ground forces into Lebanon."<<
Samo prashanje na denovi e koga merkavite kje osamnat pred bejrutskite porti...
P.S. Welcome back Lidija
| quote: |
| Originally posted by achtung_panzer @SidneyGuy, Well come on chief, it is a no-brainer and you still haven't figured it out?! More terrorism or less, what is your prefference... |
What one person may define as a 'terrorist' another person may see them as a 'freedom fighter'. I consider the invasion of Iraq by America as an act of State Terrorism. But since I don't control the U.N., I won't get to have my way by having a resolution passed declaring U.S.A. as 'terrorists'.
This really is all about word games and the ones who get to have their way are the ones who have the most wealth. But just by making a law that declares an organisation as a 'terrorist organisation' doesn't necessarily make them a 'terrorist organisation' in the eyes of all the people of this world. America may have the most wealth, but they don't get to decide for others what they want to think.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201627.html
Ovde se zboruva za evrejskoto lobiranje(vo isto vreme i site igri sto se igraat) vo Amerika. 5 stranici no ako imate vreme procitajte do kraj.
sepak presata ne ni kazhuva sekogash se` kako shto treba i pred da kazheme treba i drugiot aspekt da go chueme.
se zbori za nekakvi 8 ubieni i 2 kidnapirani izraelski vojnika...a prethodnata nokj od izraelski bombi poginuvaat 24 dushi od koi 9 deca. koj e loshiot?
a za geto-taktikata,enklavite,bezraboticata,gladot,siromashtijata, "berlinskite-dzidovi",zavisnosta,infrastrukturata,omalovazhuvanjeto,odzemanjeto zemja,smrtnosta...nikoj nishto ne spomna! chekam Ninochka od prva raka da kazhe neshto.
kolku i da e kulturen i miroljubiv chovek vo takvi AUSCHWITZ-USLOVI ke podivi.
buldozherite,rushenje kukji,unishtuvanje bunari...uslovite tamu se mnogu poloshi od vremeto na Hitler.toj na brzo reshaval,ovie izmachuvaat milioni narod dodeka samite si se zezaat na plazha,po diskoteki i restorani.
zhalno shto tolku mnogu lugje pagjaat na evrejskata-laga!
| quote: | ||
Originally posted by SydneyGuy
What one person may define as a 'terrorist' another person may see them as a 'freedom fighter'. I consider the invasion of Iraq by America as an act of State Terrorism. |
And I thought it's a no-brainer for you... well, next time when you take a bus watch for handbags conviniently forgotten by the muslim guy that sat next to you... you might just want to get out at the next stop...Ubavo reche Lidija, ne da se trudime da vidime koj e angelot a koj gjavolot... tuku koj mozhebi e pomalo zlo. Ne gledam ama nikakva prichina zoshto bi gi zhalel facite od team Hezbolah i drugite slichni nihilistichki druzhbi. I ona so shto se napravija slavni za seto vreme na nivnoto dejstvuvanje, ja zasluzhuvaat sekoja bomba vrz nivnata glava. Za civilnite zhrtvi od bombardiranjata, hezbolah shemata imavme shansa da ja vidime ne ednash niz Kosovo i Tetovsko, Gostivarsko, Mala Rechica protestite i podocna vojnata tamu, koga borcite za prava vo prviot red gi pikaat zhenite i decata i gi koristat kako shtit. Za niv krienjeto oruzhje niz bolnici i zemanjeto deca za zalozhnici stana norma, ich oko ne im trepnuva. Ako sega ne im se presechat koncite tamu od rodnata zemja na zeleniot nihilizam, utre slichnite sranja kje osamnat vo nashiot dvor. Samo nie nemame onakva armija kako shto ima Izrael niti onakva poddrshka od Centralata... Team Green ednostavno ne e alternativa za nishto...
The irony of it all is that the same people [you and the alike] who during the Macedonian conflict of 2001 were so pissed off at the world calling the Albanians as 'militant' and 'rebels' now do exactly the same thing calling Hizballah 'militants'.
International law has one single definition of what terrorism is: Intentionally killing civilians by independent armed groups or individuals for political purposes.
Now, this definition does not apply to the US or Israel as they 1. do not ever intentionally kill civilians and 2. are sovereign democratic states.
Most world media have been appeasing terrorists for a long time by avoiding the 'T' word. They all have different euphemisms:
Assailants - America's National Public Radio
Attackers - The Economist
Bombers - The Guardian
Captors - Associated Press (AP)
Commandos - Agence France-Presse
Criminals - London's Times
Extremists - United Press International
Fighters - The Washington Post
Group - The Australian
Guerrillas - in a New York Post editorial
Gunmen - Reuters
Hostage-takers - THe Los Angeles Times
Kidnappers - London's The Observer
Militants - Chicago Times
Insurgents - in a New York Times headline
Perpetrators - The New York Times
Radicals - BBC
Rebels - in a Sydney Morning Herald headline
Separatists - The Daily Telegraph
and the best one:
Activists - The Pakistan Times :)
Freedom fighters is not used by these 'non biased' organizations, but only by the terrorist groups themselves and their media.
Pick one of these to refer to what the Albanians were doing in Macedonia in 2001.
Dodeka zagrizhenite dvolichni strini krojat nekoi drugi planovi, vekje videni scenarija del od niv imame vkuseno i na nasha kozha:
>>"U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour criticized the growing death toll, saying the indiscriminate shelling of cities and of nearby military sites was invariably resulting in the deaths of innocent civilians.
"International law demands accountability," Arbour said in Geneva. "The scale of the killings in the region, and their predictability, could engage the personal criminal responsibility of those involved, particularly those in a position of command and control."
Can you spell "new material for Carla Del Ponte"?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA SydneyGuy, The irony of it all is that the same people [you and the alike] who during the Macedonian conflict of 2001 were so pissed off at the world calling the Albanians as 'militant' and 'rebels' now do exactly the same thing calling Hizballah 'militants'. |
Just for the record, I was one of the few Macedonians who was against the war in 2001 in Macedonia. I said at the time that the solution to the problem was for the Macedonian government to make a genuine effort to try to address the issues that the Albanians had rather than to try to silence them with military means. So it's wrong for anybody here to automatically assume that I was against the Albanians.
Here's a very important point to keep in mind: at some point in the future, Albanians will out-number Macedonians in Macedonia. What will this mean? It will mean that Albanians will be able to elect a government that will be pro-Albanian because in a democracy the majority rules. What will this mean for Macedonians? It will mean that a time will come when Macedonians will become a minority in their own country - Macedonians will not be in control of their own destiny - the Albanians will take control instead.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by NINOCHKA International law has one single definition of what terrorism is: Intentionally killing civilians by independent armed groups or individuals for political purposes. Now, this definition does not apply to the US or Israel as they 1. do not ever intentionally kill civilians and 2. are sovereign democratic states. |
In that case, these issues should be settled once and for all by initiating four war crimes trials in the International Court of Justice.
A summons should then be issued for;
1. U.S. President, George W. Bush
2. Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Barak
3. Palestinian Prime Minister, Ismael Haniyeh
4. Leader of Hezbollah in Lebanon, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah
These four men can then argue their cases before impartial judges who will apply International Law and then they can make a determination about their culpability in the commission of any terrorist acts.
Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, gave an order for military action to be taken on Lebanon's territory. Even if he claims that they didn't intentionally try to kill civilians it doesn't absolve him of any guilt. He cannot excuse himself of any guilt from the deaths that have been caused to civilians because he was aware at the time that there was a real risk of some of the missiles landing on unintended targets. I base this assertion by applying the following legal principles when assessing a person's culpability in the commission of a crime;
A person causes a result purposely/intentionally if the result is his/her goal in doing the action that causes it,
A person causes a result knowingly if he/she knows that the result is virtually certain to occur from the action he/she undertakes,
A person causes a result recklessly if he/she is aware of and disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk of the result occurring from the action, and
A person causes a result negligently if there is a substantial and unjustifiable risk he/she is unaware of but very much should be aware of.
The above legal principles are applied in American courts and similar legal principles apply in other jurisdictions.
Peshadiski prestrelki so Hezbolah pred Merkava Korps da zarolaat niz Hezbolah Land. Od zelenata strana za toa vreme samo verbalni zakani vo sluchaj na napad vrz Sirija itn... Team Green znachi od Liban dignal race... nekoi nabljuduvachi vo sevo ova gledaat uspeshen obid na Iran da go svrti fokusot na megjunarodniot pritisok od negovata nuklearna programa...
Po primerot na Izrael, i Turcija najavuva slichna ofanziva vo severen Irak protiv k*rdskite buntovnici...
Zabelezhani masovni grupiranja na izraelski oklopno-mehanizirani edinici na granicata so Liban. Istovremeno objavena mobilizacija na izraelskite rezervisti zaradi (vekje ochigledna) masivna ofanziva vo Liban.
Da pogagjame kade kje se krie Hezbolah niz Liban? Na pr. uchilishta, bolnici, dzhamii, zad zheni, deca, nedolzhni civili...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by achtung_panzer Idat... Zabelezhani masovni grupiranja na izraelski oklopno-mehanizirani edinici na granicata so Liban. Istovremeno objavena mobilizacija na izraelskite rezervisti zaradi (vekje ochigledna) masivna ofanziva vo Liban. Da pogagjame kade kje se krie Hezbolah niz Liban? Na pr. uchilishta, bolnici, dzhamii, zad zheni, deca, nedolzhni civili... |
A ti si siguren deka ovie trgnale Hezbolah da go lovat?
Ili pak ne znaat kade se tie "kidnapirani" vojnici...
Za vremeto na Clinton, site komunikacii vo Belata Kukja bea prislushkuvani od MOSSAD, kojznae shto sve nemaat snimano od Clinton - Lewinski muabeti by the way. I sega nekoj ke mi kazhe zaradi dva vojnika cela armija na noga?
I nema da preteram ako kazham deka i onie shto teroriziraat i onie shto se "borat" protiv toj terorizam se pod kontrola od CIA, MOSSAD i slichni ...
Ama imam nekoe neobjasnivo chustvo deka neshto nepredvideno ke se sluchi, ne znam shto ama nekoj grdno ke se zaebe za neshto.
http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.info/
THE SIX MILLION RECONSIDERED
There are some who regard this kind of word-juggling as a peculiar talent of those mystical Zionists who are involved with the esoteric doctrines of Kabbalism. In these arcane and little-known affairs, letters and syllables take on a bizarre significance not found in any other tongue. "Occult" experts today declare that there are certain vocal sounds and calligraphic shapes that can be used to conjure up powerful reactions in the everyday world of phenomena. This supposedly is why Hebrew is the pre-eminent language of sorcery, just as the six-pointed Star of David on the Zionist flag is perhaps the most common symbol in the "black arts."
Whatever the truth of all this may be – and science today is approaching closer to the long-derided "irrational" side of experience – there is no question of Zionist word wizardry in view of their success in making the ridiculous neologism "anti-Semitism" a powerful psychological weapon. Nothing is surprising in this fraud-ridden business: it is a fact that the "anti-Semitism" conceit was coined in a half-jocular way by a 19th century Jewish journalist named Wilhelm Marr. That Marr himself was "anti-Semitic" is only one more wrinkle in the swirl.
Most Zionists Are Not True Semites
But this peculiar war of words rises to a final pitch of bewilderment in the fact that the people who angrily fling the epithet "anti-Semite" in all directions are definitely not racial Semites themselves. This includes the great majority of the Zionist Jews who have seized lands held for thousands of years by Arabs in Palestine, in order to form the modern Israeli entity.
These so-called Jews are actually descendants of a Mongolian people from Central Asia, who adopted Judaism by conversion around 740 A.D. They have no lineal connexion with the Biblical Hebrews, and hence only a squatters' claim to the crossroads of the Near East thousands of miles from where they originated. The name of this Oriental tribe is the Khazars and their history is extremely interesting. They are also known as Polish Jews or Russian Jews, and in Hebrew as Ashkenazim (from the Hebrew word for Germany). The descendants of the original Old Testament Jews of ancient Judas are called Sephardim or Spanish Jews, and there has been over the years considerable ill feeling between these two sectors. (See, for example, the recent books of Stephen Birmingham, Our Crowd and The Grandees.)
The Sephardics have always affected a social snobbery toward the Ashkenazim, but in approximately the past century and a half, the more forceful and numerous neo-Khazars have seized control of world Jewish affairs, largely through the financial activities of the Rothschilds and the half-dozen banking dynasties allied with them, in Europe and particularly in America. This is also the element that has provided the terrorist architects and present power structure of the Zionist seizure of Palestine.
Somehow, this extraordinary situation of the Semitic Palestinian people being overrun, slaughtered and finally driven out of their homeland by the non-Semitic "Russian Jew" Zionists of Khazar descent – who then trumpet to the world that opposers of this crime are "anti-Semitic" – begins to take on the proportions of a scenario in the contemporary "Theater of the Absurd."
The prominent Jewish writer, Arthur Koestler, grapples with this tragicomic affair in his 1976 study of the Khazars entitled The Thirteenth Tribe. Pointing out that "the large majority of surviving Jews in the world is of Eastern European – and thus perhaps mainly Khazar – origin," he correctly observes that this logically makes the term anti-Semitism "void of meaning." With huge understatement, Koestler declares that "the story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated." We would only quibble on one point: the hoax was not perpetrated by history.
Some Final Questions on 'Anti-Semitism'
In closing this short inquiry, three questions come to mind.
Since being branded an "anti-Semite" has become quite a stigma, placing in jeopardy the individual's economic and social welfare, should not the phrase be exactly and rationally defined? Inevitably someone is going to be mislabeled sometime. And yet the arch-Zionist Anti-Defamation League of Banai B'rith, which usually has charge of wielding the branding iron, has repeatedly refused to answer queries from this committee asking for such a definition. We have sadly concluded by wondering whether that "upright" organization should not more accurately be called the Anti-Definition League!
What is a "Semite"? Is it or is it not a member of a racial group? According to the prevailing Jewish authority, Jewry is a religious group only, with no racial (i.e., genetic) identity. Yet they continue tacitly to endorse a 19th century racialist conception of themselves every time they label an opponent "anti-Semitic." In order to get United Nations approval of a measure condemning religious discrimination recently, the so-called State of Israel gravely assented to having the word "anti-Jewish" substituted for "anti-Semitic." If the two are synonymous to any extent, would it not be more accurate if all Jewish organizations similarly dropped the meaningless and racist designation "anti-Semitic" in favor of "anti-Jewish"?
As we have seen, the majority of today's Jews are not descendants of the Old Testament Hebrews but of a Mongolian people of Central Asia called Khazars. These people were fairly recent converts to Judaism, as Arthur Koestler and earlier writers have shown. Yet, the non-Semitic Mongolian "Jews" are by far the most powerful in Jewish and Zionist affairs, and are the ones who quickest raise the cry of "anti-Semitism" against ideas or activities that irritate them. In the interest of historical accuracy, should not this peculiar but evidently necessary vocabulary of swear-words be enriched by the term "anti-Khazar"? At the very least, should not intelligent people realize that anti-Zionism does not equal "anti-Semitism"?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by VaSiLij Devil is an American. |
Kriza na Bliskom istoku nije pocela ovih dana, vec; kojih devedeset godina ranije, preciznije jos; 1917. godine, pismom ministra vanjskih poslova Velike Britanije Arthur Balfoura lordu Walteru Rothschildu, predstavniku Engleske federacije cionista: "Vlada Njegova Velicanstva povoljno gleda na uspostavu nacionalne domovine zidovskog naroda u Palestini... Naseljavanje zidova nije bilo posljedica brige za njih, vec posljedica britanske imperijalne politike, koja je upravo naseljavanjem zidova u Palestini zeljela osigurati svoje interese u tom dijelu svijeta.
Ne smije se nista uciniti sto bi narusilo gradzanska i vjerska prava postojecih nezidovskih zajednica u Palestini ili prava i politicki status koji zidovi uzivaju u bilo kojoj drugoj zemlji". Britansko upravljanje Palestinom (i ne samo Palestinom) pocelo je de facto vec u prosincu 1917. Nasilje se kotrljalo pustinjom s obje strane - i od starosjedilaca i od strane zidovskih doseljenika, ciji je broj London itekako dozirao, naravno prema vlastitim interesima.
Naseljavanje zidova, namjera iz pisma (tzv. Balfourove deklaracije), nije posljedica brige za zidove, vec posljedica britanske imperijalne politike, koja je upravo naseljavanjem zidova u Palestini zeljela osigurati britanske interese u tom dijelu svijeta. Gledajuci Bliski istok (Middle East) kao kriziste puteva izmedzu Europe i Indije, istoka i zapada, sjevera i juga. Jeruzalem su vidjeli kao strateski smjesten grad, koji je isto tako znacajan polozaj imao i u srednjem vijeku i u vrijeme starog Babilona i Egipta.
Nikada dosad nije bilo stvarnih interesa velikih sila (SAD) i pripadajucih poboznika (Britanija), a niti Izraela, da se stanje stalnog rata zamjeni odrzivim mirom.
Koliko je Britaniji bilo stalo do kontrole na Bliskom istoku najbolje govori to sto je u Prvom svjetskom ratu vise vojnika poslala na Bliski istok nego u Europu, s izuzetkom Galipolja. Kraljevski institut za medzunarodne odnose iz prve je shvatio sto je i sto ce tek biti nafta.
Natezanja oko useljavanja u Palestinu trajala su sve dok se Britanija nije odlucila povuci i prepustiti Palestinu Ujedinjenim narodima. Usvajanjem Rezolucije 181 (II) UN-a 1947. godine predvidzena je podjela Palestine na dvije drzave - arapsku i zidovsku - s ekonomskom unijom te Jeruzalemom i Betlehemom kao corpus separatum pod medzunarodnim rezimom kojim upravlja UN. Palestinci, koji su tada cinili 70 posto stanovnistva, trebali su dobiti 42,3 posto teritorija. zidovima, kojih je tada bilo oko 30 posto, islo bi 57 posto teritorija, dok bi ostatak od 0,7 posto bio pod medzunarodnim re#382;imom UN-a.
No, kako je Velika Britanija najavila svoje povlacenje 15. svibnja 1948. godine, Ben Gurion je 14. svibnja proglasio Drzavu Izrael, ne zeleci da UN podrucje Palestine stavi pod starateljstvo SAD-a, novog imperija koji je naslijedio Britaniju nakon Drugog svjetskog rata. Pokolj Palestinaca u Deir Jasinu 9. travnja 1948., koji su pocinili pripadnici Icela i Sterna, naznacio je kakav ce odnos izmedzu dvije zajednice biti iducih desetljeca.
UN-ovom Rezolucijom 181 (II) iz 1947. predvidzena je podjela Palestine na dvije drzave - arapsku i zidovsku - s ekonomskom unijom te Jeruzalemom i Betlehemom kao corpus separatum. Palestinci su trebali dobiti 42,3 posto teritorija, Izraelci 57 posto, a 0,7 posto bi bilo pod upravom UN-a. Vec nakon prvog rata s Arapima, Izrael je preuzeo kontrolu nad 78 posto teritorija Palestine.
Ohrabreni povlacenjem Velike Britanije, cionisti krecu u zauzimanje ostalih teritorija, koji su bili predvidzeni za arapsku drzavu. Sukobljavaju se sa susjedima, sto je ostalo poznato kao Prvi izraelsko–arapski rat. Neucinkovite vojske arapskih zemalja uspjele su zadrzati samo dio pojasa Gaze (Egipat) i dio Zapadne obale (Jordan), tako da je odmah nakon prvog rata Izrael imao kontrolu nad 78 posto cjelokupnog teritorija Palestine. Dakle, kontrolirao je i 50 posto teritorija koji je rezolucijom UN-a 181 (II) trebao pripasti arapskoj drzavi. No, to nije smetalo ni SAD-u ni SSSR-u da priznaju Izrael. U Ujedinjene narode je primljen 11. svibnja 1949. A od 1967. godine drzi pod okupacijom i Zapadnu obalu i Gazu. Pojas Gaze su napustili nakon 39 godina, ali je izraelska vojska i sada u dijelu Gaze, pokusavajuci pacificirati ono sto se silom ne moze pacificirati.
Nikada dosad, a ni sada, ukljucujuci i najnovijie sukobe, nije bilo stvarnih interesa velikih sila (SAD) i pripadajucih poboznika (Britanija), a niti Izraela, da se stanje stalnog rata zamjeni odrzivim mirom.
Najnoviji rat, tj. invazija izraelske vojske na Libanon, samo je jedan u nizu pokusaja da se skrene pozornost s odbijanja rjesavanja palestinskog pitanja. Polozaj Palestinaca na Zapadnoj obali i pojasu Gaze tema je koja ne zabrinjava SAD u smislu zastite ljudskih prava i prava na stvaranje drzave Palestine.
S ovakvom svojom politikom, unatoc superiornosti spram susjeda, Izrael pokazuje da jednostavno nema ucinkovito rjesenje za svoj dugorocni opstanak u miru.
Intervencija u Libanonu (treca po redu) stavila je na dnevni red - Siriju, kako bi je se uvuklo u sukob i nakon "osloboditeljske akcije" pacificiralo. To bi, naravno, bio predkorak za stvaranje uvjeta za neutralizaciju, tj. "demokratizaciju" Irana. Razvaljivanjem, dezintegracijom i nametanjem gradzanskog rata u Iraku, jedini ozbiljni protivnik Izraela i SAD-a u tom dijelu svijeta ostao je - Iran. Svi ostali rezimi su vise-manje u funkciji americkih interesa.
Koliko Libanon funkcionira kao drzava najbolje se vidjelo u izjavama premijera, koji je najavljivao odgovor ako krene izraelska invazija. To sto je bombardiranjima iz zraka, s mora i sa zemlje Libanon vracen u kameno doba - to premijeru nije dovoljan argument za obranu. cinjenica je da u Libanonu jednu politiku imaju sijiti i Hezbolah, drugu krscani, trecu suniti, a cetvrtu druzi. Zajednicko im je, ipak, da zajedno vise mrze Izrael nego sto se mrze medzusobno.
Pokusaji Izraela da u trecoj invaziji na Libanon opet formira "zasticenu zonu" pokazuju da Izrael s ovakvom svojom politikom, unatoc superiornosti na svim poljima spram susjeda (i ne samo njih), jednostavno nema ucinkovito rjesenje za svoj dugorocni opstanak u miru. Bilo zasticene zone ili ne, ona ce trajati samo uz velike gubitke za Izrael, bez iakave sanse da se i preko nje ne napada Izrael. I to ne samo sjeverni.
zidovski useljenici vise nemaju otkud doci. Broj Arapa zasigurno raste i demografsku bitku Izrael ne moze dobiti. Doseljavanje zidova iz SAD-a bilo bi kontraproduktivno, jer bez utjecaja u Americi Izrael nestaje kao biljka bez vode.
Izraelska politika, ovakva kakva jest, osudzena je na propast, prvenstveno jer se takvom politikom zrtvuje polozaj svih zidova koji zive izvan Izraela, SAD-a i Velike Britanije. Antisemitizam nitko uspjesnije ne proizvodi od onih koji na njega upozoravaju – ali na krivom mjestu! To je samoubilacka politika koja rezultat moze dati samo na kratke staze. Koliko god standard u Izraelu bio bolji za zidovske useljenike, oni vise nemaju otkud doci. Od milijun i pol iz ex-SSSR-a vec ih je pola milijuna potrazilo ugodnije i mirnije mjesto za zivljenje. Ima jos oko pola milijuna zidova u Francuskoj, koje se vec pokusalo navabiti u Izrael. No resursi doseljavanja su presusili. Broj Arapa zasigurno raste i demografsku bitku Izrael ne moze dobiti. Doseljavanje iz SAD-a je kontraproduktivno, jer bez utjecaja u Americi Izrael nestaje kao biljka bez vode.
Ipak kad se pogleda kome su sve i kako Britanci pomogli, onda se moze donijeti zajednicki zakljucak da su Britanci kroz povijet za sobom uvijek i u pravilu ostavljali rjesenja koja se nisu mogla nikao rijesiti osim stalnim sukobima ovog ili onog intenziteta. Dovoljno je pogledati povijest Irske, Juznoafricke Republike, Rodezije, Iraka, Indije i Pakistana, Izraela i Palestine, Jugoslavije, Bosne i Hercegovine...
Izrael je tu gdje je i trebao bi opstati, ali zahvaljujuci samoubilackoj politici odbijanja suocavanja s okruzenjem svakim danom izgledi su mu sve manji. A Arapi, oni ce jednom mozda oprostiti Izraelcima, ali zasigurno nece svojim rezimima koji su ih odbili braniti.
Pavle Kalini#263;
25.07.2006.
Boris, the statistics show that people from an Albanian background (this includes Albanians born in Macedonia and elsewhere) have a significantly higher birthrate than Macedonians from a Slavic background. These birthrates may well change in the future and of course this will have an impact on the ethnic composition of the population of the Republic of Macedonia. My point was simple: if the birthrates remain significantly unchanged then at some point in the future there will be more people from an Albanian background than those from a Slavic background. One of the former prime ministers of Macedonia (Mr Georgievski) spoke about this when he suggested that one solution for Macedonia would have been to partition the country in a similar manner to how the Israeli government had partitioned Israel when they created the Palestinian Authority.
Understandably, most people from a Slavic background were against this because it would have meant that the Republic of Macedonia would have been divided into two seperate countries: one for Macedonians and one for Albanians. Mr Georgievski said at the time that if this didn't happen then the Republic would have reached a point in time when there would be more Albanians than Macedonians. He said that when that happens, Macedonians will no longer have democratic control of their own country.
I think it's important to state something here: not all people from an Albanian background vote for the one same political party. Just like people from other ethnic groups, every Albanian has his/her own personal preference and therefore will vote for the political party which s/he thinks will best look after his/her interests. This is a very significant fact because some Macedonians make the wrong assumption that all Albanians vote only for the one same political party at every election.
Things change Guy, the path that numbers project is never straight when they have to be "cashed" in real events...
You mentioned the former (and never again) macedonian prime minister: the same one that proposed separation of Macedonia is now a proud citizen of Bulgaria and with him, straight to the dumpster of the history, goes a painfull part of macedonian transition (into whatever we, Macedonians as rulers of our land- not Albanians- transition). His "nemesis" is now the macedonian president whose time is running out also. The boundaries set forth in the '90ies as a reflection of '70 and '80s are about to change... keyword being "change"...
The world in 2006 is very different from the time when the albanian invasion of its northeast region started...
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| Originally posted by Juve ova e se samo ne e makedonski forum, site pisuvaat na angliski i nikakov licen komentar tuku samo tugi i samo copy -paste |
... and what's your point?