NATO what a joke

NATO what a joke
graf	Genocide or a Hoax? The Trepcha Crematoria Case By Carl K. Savich During the NATO bombardment of Yugoslavia in 1999, the Yugoslav forces under President Slobodan Milosevic were accused of incinerating the bodies of 700-750 Albanians at the Trepcha Mine Complex in northern Kosovo near the town of Kosovska Mitrovica. British, French, German, and American newspapers and media picked up this allegation to accuse the Yugoslav forces of committing genocide in Yugoslavia on a scale with the Holocaust. The Trepcha Ovens were compared to those at the Nazi death camps/concentration camps at Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, and Treblinka. After the NATO bombing, NATO, the UN, the OSCE, and the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) sent investigators to the Trepcha mine complex. No evidence whatsoever was found at the Trepcha complex. The furnaces, the shafts, and the grounds were inspected and analyzed but no evidence was found for the allegation that Yugoslav/Serbian forces had burned the bodies of Albanian corpses. What was the origin and purpose for the Trepcha story? The Trepcha case originated from Albanian sources who claimed to have seen trucks going in and out of the mining complex. The Albanian sources concluded that the Serbs were burning Albanian corpses. This allegation was picked up and developed by NATO. Why? NATO needed a justification for the bombing of Yugoslavia, a sovereign and independent nation recognized by the United Nations. The Yugoslav government of Slobodan Milosevic was engaged in a war against the UCK/KLA, a separatist group that the US State department labeled a “terrorist group” in 1998. The UCK/KLA were murdering Serbian civilians, Albanians civilians, Yugoslav police officers, Yugoslav security forces, and even Yugoslav army troops. The goal of the UCK/KLA was to create a separate country called Kosova by killing and driving out non-Albanians,i.e., Kosovo Serbs, and by destroying the Yugoslav government presence in the province of Kosovo. Thus, the Yugoslav government had a legal and legitimate right under the UN and international law to protect its borders and to safeguard its citizens by engaging the separatist/terrorist UCK/KLA. The only way NATO could overcome the illegality of the NATO bombardment and occupation of Yugoslavia is by alleging that a genocide was about to occur and that NATO was seeking to prevent genocide by intervening. NATO and the US State Department claimed that up to 500,000 Kosovo Albanians had been murdered in Kosovo in a planned and systematic genocide. But after the bombing, these figures could not be substantiated. A Spanish Forensic team under Emilio Pujol found no mass graves. Pujol stated that there was no evidence of genocide. He stated that he came to examine 2,500 bodies but found only 187. All other war crimes investigations could find no evidence of genocide. What was the explanation? NATO and the US State Department argued that the Serbs had burned the bodies thereby destroying the evidence. This is where the Trepcha Crematoria Ovens Hoax enters the picture. The Trepcha case was revived by Minnesota Public Radio (MPR) in 2001 in an investigative story entitled “The Promise of Justice” produced by American Radio Works in which it was maintained that the Serbs had indeed incinerated or cremated the bodies of 1,200 to 1,500 Albanians civilians executed during the conflict. The source or evidence for the allegations was hearsay statements made by Serb “fighters” who had been part of “a secret army” called Frenkies Boys. The MPR report, broadcast on National Public Radio (NPR), presented no evidence at all. The only source was hearsay. Immediately following the MPR/NPR story, the OSCE reported that it had investigated the Trepcha Complex and furnaces and found no evidence of the incineration of any bodies. A French team had determined that the Trepcha Complex had been closed since late March, shortly after the NATO bombing began, and had never reopened. So the Trepcha Complex never even operated during the bulk of the Kosovo bombing by NATO! Moreover, Benjamin Works found out that US satellites had infra-red heat sensors that could detect heat emissions at Trepcha. Works was informed by NATO/US sources that no signs of heat were detected by the satellites. Works was told that Trepcha was as “cold as a cucumber”. NATO never released this information to the public. The evidence provided by the UN, the OSCE, the ICTY, and French and Spanish forensic teams, showed that there were no burnings of corpses at Trepcha. What then was the purpose for the Auchwitz-like Trepcha Crematoria allegations by NATO and the US State Department? Trepcha is an example of war propaganda, of propaganda of the deed. Trepcha was a hoax meant to demonize the Serbian people and the leaders of Yugoslavia/Serbia. Why? All war propaganda ultimately serves the purpose of allowing for the killing of the “enemy”. The Trepcha Hoax was required to enable NATO to bomb Yugoslavia based on the propaganda justification of preventing genocide. If there was no cremation of Albanian corpses, then there was no genocide. If there was no genocide, then there is no legal or legitimate reason for NATO to bomb a sovereign country. Thus the reason for the Trepcha Crematoria hoax is obvious. Who is the ultimate victim or dupe of the Trepcha Hoax? Was it the Serbs? The Serbs knew it was a hoax. The Trepcha Hoax was aimed at American citizens. American citizens were the victims of the hoax. Why? The US government did not want any opposition to the bombing of Yugoslavia. The Trepcha hoax silenced dissent and precluded any debate. Who would not support bombing to prevent genocide? The way this could be achieved was by manufacturing a phony and bogus hoax about the incineration of bodies in Kosovo. The hoax was propaganda. Who did it deceive? The American public was deceived. This is the real danger of propaganda and of manufactured hoaxes. They are not only the racist demonizations of an entire people, the Serbs. These hoaxes manipulate Americans themselves. Is there really liberty and freedom in the US when we are the unwitting victims of such blatant hoaxes? Why does our government deceive its own people with war propaganda? Is it good or bad? Does it serve a useful purpose? Is war propaganda compatible with liberty? This is the question we each have to ask ourselves.
Canmak	quote: Originally posted by Thunder from down under Sadam Husein minding his own bussines not bothering any one anyway he let them in iraq da im pomini merakot na teroristite t.e NATO did they find anything Dont think so and they still want to bomb iraq WHYYYYYYYYYYYY SADAM IS EVIL MAN IS THEY EXCUSE ........KO NE GI CEPKA NIKOJ SO NE SI SEDAT MIRNI COMONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN You can't be serious? Were are the 30,000+ chemical and biological warheads that saddam had? Where is the proof that he destroyed them? Why does he have ties to al qaeda? Do you think that the americans are going to let something like this go un-noticed? Why did he kick out the UN inspectors the first time around? How come the current leader of the inspectors is stating that Iraq is not co-operating once again....do you honestly think that the amercians are going to dance this tango again? First off all you all have to realize that after sept. 11, the American gov't issued a decree that stated they will do any pre-emptive strikes against any country that they see as a possible problem in the future. That means that they will try to make sure that sept 11 never occurs again. If the American gov't feels that a country is a threat to them they will strike them with or with out the worlds approval. Prior to Sept 11 the country of USA was assertive now they are very aggressive in all of there actions. For those of you that say Saddam should be left alone I personally think something is wrong with you. This is a man that used chemical weapons on his own civilians on his own soldiers during the IRAQI-IRAN conflict....a war that killed over a million people. This is a man that has tortured and killed people that speak up against him....he even killed his own son in law. Lastly this is not a NATO mission so far......there are member countries of Nato that seem to be against this specifically France and Germany........BUT......As George Bush clearly stated you are either with us or against us and I am sure that those two will hop on this coalition of the willing to fight the evil man that is in Iraq and that threatens the lifestyle that I so happen to love and that is the western worlds lifestyle. I just feel sorry for any western country that doesn't support americas ideal cause you don't want to go against the super power in the world especially when she asks for your support. Come FEB 5 the secertary of the state Colin Powel will give further proof to the United Nations that Iraq does have weapons of Mass destruction and has been hiding them from the UN inspectors.
ILjo	quote: Originally posted by Canmak Such a joke but why is the Mak gov't trying to join Nato? ah I see after they save Macedonia from the brink of civil war the Macedonians decided hey this is a good group. Can you please be a bit more specific about this? Perhaps post some links of articles stating this? Cause I'd really like to know how did NATO save Macedonia from.. well from whatever?
ILjo	Canmak, that's true.. I've been raised in the Balkans. Do you have any problems with that? Cause if you do, I don't give a shit. Just don't tell me about Macedonia, I don't wanna hear about that from you. You've been there twice, and you are giving me all that crap about Macedonia. And yes.. there is preasure on the party in power, there has always been. There must be albanian party in power, and that's a fact. Again, don't tell me that Macedonian newspapers are biased, that's excuse because you can't read them. That's the reality, they can't bullshit people when they see what's happening. It would be the same as if I said that the Toronto Star is biased about everything that's going on in Toronto. But I forgot, you were not raised in Macedonia, and you believe that US is the greatest, in any point of view. After all this is Macedonia - Political Talks forum, and you don't know shit about the politics in Macedonia. Watching the CNN won't give you the idea of how things are going on there. So just back off, you know you are wrong.. don't be stubborn, just face the truth. Cheers, iljo
Deemer	hi folks i just want so see some very interesting and resoursfull website that is www.rense.com and see for yourself how western culture and ideals are truly worth... canmak, what is your opinion? [:)]
graf	tuff web site
graf	ILjo Canmak as been brainwash by CNN and BBC hahahaah
graf	Iljo I had about 20 pages showing how Nato failed Macedonia. There is more information showng how they stuff the country then how they saved it
ILjo	Yeah graf, I know :). I just wanted to see how Canmak would replay, and where would he get the websites saying that NATO saved Macedonia. Though I was there during most of the crisis, and believe me, NATO didn't do anything. It's just some crappy propaganda, or maybe Canmak just made that stuff up. Thanks anyways :)
Thunder from down under	quote: Originally posted by ILjo quote: Originally posted by Canmak Such a joke but why is the Mak gov't trying to join Nato? ah I see after they save Macedonia from the brink of civil war the Macedonians decided hey this is a good group. Can you please be a bit more specific about this? Perhaps post some links of articles stating this? Cause I'd really like to know how did NATO save Macedonia from.. well from whatever? sho sajvale nato be canmak so si izmisluva nesto tie cela belja e napraja nato ako ne bea tie za 2 sati makedonija ke gi sredese shiptarite
Canmak	quote: Originally posted by graf Iljo I had about 20 pages showing how Nato failed Macedonia. There is more information showng how they stuff the country then how they saved it LooooooooL Graf come on now everything you through up I shot down ......[:p]
Canmak	quote: Originally posted by ILjo Yeah graf, I know :). I just wanted to see how Canmak would replay, and where would he get the websites saying that NATO saved Macedonia. Though I was there during most of the crisis, and believe me, NATO didn't do anything. It's just some crappy propaganda, or maybe Canmak just made that stuff up. Thanks anyways :) Well one of them was operation "Harvest" the one were they collected weapons....also the peace agreement was implemented with the help of NATO ....they are still stationed there only now to be replaced by the EUs own force.......hmmmm saving macedonian lives......it can go on and on but lets seen what the Macedonian gov't done for macedonia old and current......hell the current gov't even has a coalition with the party of the terrorist leader so don't ask me what has NATO done but look at what has Macedonia done. NATO saved Macedonia from a situation that could have killed thousands of Macedonians but all you chest thumping nationalist don't see that......you all can complain about NATO but where were the people rushing to the armies to join? I didn't see any while I was there rusing to sign up actually I knew of tons of people go and hide not to get drafted so don't give me this crap.......you all blame Nato but don't blame yourselves.......wich is just wrong Nato save Macedonians from dying the came up with a diplomatci answer to the crisis with the EUs help.....what more do you all want? Because you all know full well that the war would be raging on now if nato didn't step in
Canmak	Such a joke but why is the Mak gov't trying to join Nato? ah I see after they save Macedonia from the brink of civil war the Macedonians decided hey this is a good group.
Thunder from down under	Nato never saved anybody Canmak they only know how to kill ppl
graf	yes nato are loserrrrr. with a big L aahahahaha
Canmak	How can they be losers when every operation they have undertook has been successful...shit they even took on the mighty USSR and look at it now if thats a lose then so be it Just like old times boys
graf	ussr was defeated by $$$$ being thrown at them. the former ussr states are in wrost state. being over run by drug lords and terriost
Canmak	AND tell me who had the money ah yes thats right NATO countries do[:p][:D]
graf	yes they have $$$ by keeping other countries poor
ILjo	quote: Originally posted by Canmak Well one of them was operation "Harvest" the one were they collected weapons....also the peace agreement was implemented with the help of NATO ....they are still stationed there only now to be replaced by the EUs own force.......hmmmm saving macedonian lives......it can go on and on but lets seen what the Macedonian gov't done for macedonia old and current......hell the current gov't even has a coalition with the party of the terrorist leader so don't ask me what has NATO done but look at what has Macedonia done. NATO saved Macedonia from a situation that could have killed thousands of Macedonians but all you chest thumping nationalist don't see that......you all can complain about NATO but where were the people rushing to the armies to join? I didn't see any while I was there rusing to sign up actually I knew of tons of people go and hide not to get drafted so don't give me this crap.......you all blame Nato but don't blame yourselves.......wich is just wrong Nato save Macedonians from dying the came up with a diplomatci answer to the crisis with the EUs help.....what more do you all want? Because you all know full well that the war would be raging on now if nato didn't step in Canmak, please, give me a break, and start reading news from sources such as: www.dnevnik.com.mk, www.vest.com.mk, and www.utrinskivesnik.com.mk, and perhaps watch Macedonian news at www.telma.com.mk. Because, as I have already said, all you know is the american propaganda. Oh yeah.. they have done such great things, such as the operation "harvest", however no one mentioned its failure. Or perhaps they said that it was just another great successful operation? Yeah, right.. dream on. Oh, I almost forgot the peace agreement, which lasted what, a week.. maybe two? And you probably don't even know about the PERSONAL phone call between Geroge Bush and Boris Trajkovski. Yes, an event like that occured. Just when the Macedonian army was about to surround a village in which NATO's proffesionals were training UCK "freedom fighters" a.k.a. terrorists, they had to pull back. Wow, thanks NATO, thanks for training the terrorist, so that they have more war skills. Canmak.. spear us from your bullshitting about NATO, and whatever is american, being the best, and that Macedonians are not worth for crap. Please, just give us a break. ILjo
Canmak	I read all points of view...I even read the antiwar.com papers and also the emperors papers. LOL those Macedonian programs have to be the most biased papers out there as well as the STATE runned television in Macedonia so you give me a break in my personal opinion and the facts are with me on this NATO saved macedonia from a huge problem....sure there are problems still in that region but the problems would have been much worse.....but let me guess you are a typical person from the balkans that has so much anti-western sentiments and can't see that....well I guess being brought up in a region that was predominantly communist for the last 50 years you would have anti-western sentiments. As I have stated numerous times and I will state it again Macedonia should look with in to place the blame not to look out and place the blame on someone else......I mean give me a break you call these people terrorists (which they are) and your current gov't has a coalition with there party looooooooool thats a joke
graf	quote: you call these people terrorists (which they are) and your current gov't has a coalition with there party looooooooool thats a joke THe only reason why thery are in is beacuse of international pressure on sdsm.
Canmak	lol again you blame other people lol typical
Canmak	quote: Originally posted by ILjo Canmak, that's true.. I've been raised in the Balkans. Do you have any problems with that? Cause if you do, I don't give a shit. Just don't tell me about Macedonia, I don't wanna hear about that from you. You've been there twice, and you are giving me all that crap about Macedonia. And yes.. there is preasure on the party in power, there has always been. There must be albanian party in power, and that's a fact. Again, don't tell me that Macedonian newspapers are biased, that's excuse because you can't read them. That's the reality, they can't bullshit people when they see what's happening. It would be the same as if I said that the Toronto Star is biased about everything that's going on in Toronto. But I forgot, you were not raised in Macedonia, and you believe that US is the greatest, in any point of view. After all this is Macedonia - Political Talks forum, and you don't know shit about the politics in Macedonia. Watching the CNN won't give you the idea of how things are going on there. So just back off, you know you are wrong.. don't be stubborn, just face the truth. Cheers, iljo I beg to differ......sure I watch CNN, BBC, FOX I watch all of them......and I believe them more than the Macedonian State runned news....come on now wasnt a reporter just beaten in Macedonia by the police, thats alot of freedom of press there. I don't have a problem with you being born in Macedonia......I have a problem with your typical balkan mentality that puts the blame on other people instead of yourselves. Sure this maybe Macedonia Political talks but this thread is about NATO and that is what I am responding to. If you don't like it you can back off. And then you have typical responses by People such as Graf that say "he is brainwashed etc" thats typical.....why shouldn't i believe the press in the western world I do come from the western world the part of the world that domintes the globe. The part of the world that has the most freedoms, but with the typical balkan mentality its has to be that I am brainwashed no person with balkan heritage can agree with Nato but all of the countries in the balkans are just dying to get into that group. You are confused if you think that NATO has caused the hatred among the ethnic groups there because you all know that that region is the most segragated region you have ever been in. There is no mixing of cultures there and the hatreds just happen to boil to a point of violence against each other. As I said before I will support NATO and her Actions ....why?.....because they stand up for the ideals I believe in. I live in the western world and I will support the ideals of the western world.
ILjo	Canmak.. I'm not trying to brainwash you, and make you think something rather than what you believe in. It's just that I'm telling what is really going on, and that NATO (and other 'forces' present in Macedonia) are corrupted. Afterall, why would they help the terrorist, supply them food, medicine, ammunition, and then send professionals to train them. Plus trust me.. even though everything you read/hear from Macedonian news services is not perfectly correct, it is truer than CNN, CBC, NBC, and any other foregin broadcasting corporations. Yeah.. more lives would have been lost if NATO hasn't intercepted, though trust me.. albanians wouldn't have the rights that they do have now. That's something that no other community has in a foregin country. For Christ's sake, they even have their university now. Again.. incident similar like this occured 6 years ago (in Gostivar), but fast action of the police and the military it enden in less than a week. I pretty much believe that the same could have happened if NATO stayed out of the way for some time. Well.. that's all folks.. have fun. iljo (i'm tired to review the above now, so excuse any (kind of) errors.) :)
graf	hopefully all those terrorist will be put down , like the dogs they are
graf	Canmak u will see that nato has failed when the fighting starts up again in spring :(
graf	All Skopje has become accustomed to seeing a 45-year old man clad in a long white robe and flak jacket pushing his cart around the food shelves of the big Vero department store almost every Wednesday or Thursday of the week. Two hand grenades are stuck in the jacket’s front pockets and a Kalashnikov automatic rifle slung across his back. Most of Vero’s customers and staff know him to be one of 30 wanted top al Qaeda and Hizballah operatives hiding in the Crna Gora mountains north of the capital, near the Kosovo border. The Macedonian army and NATO forces policing the Kosovo Macedonia frontier have thrown out an extensive dragnet for their capture. Yet none of the hunters has ever waylaid the frequent shopper or followed him to his hideout. Again, the reason is simple. Those 30 terrorists are under the protection of Ali Ahmeti, formerly a key commander of the National Liberation Army (NLA), who went into national Macedonian politics by running for election on September 15 at the head of the new Albanian Democratic Party. The European Union-brokered Ohrid peace accord, signed in 2001 to halt ethnic Albanian insurrectionist violence, provided for its ringleader to enjoy a power sharing arrangement in Macedonia. In return, he pledged to renounce civil strife and turn his back on organized crime and his Islamist terrorist associations. Ahmeti was also supposed to hand over the names of the 30 terror chiefs hiding in the hills. The Albanian rebel chief, since gaining his seat in parliament, has not honored a single one of his promises. He did not disarm his militia and, while handing over 30 names, which still have to be checked, he claimed he never agreed to their detention. Moreover, since the signing of the Ohrid accord, the guerrilla leader turned politician has opened the door wide to Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda and allied terrorist groups from the Middle East. Neither Macedonian police officers nor international peacekeepers dare venture into parts of Tetovo and most of the villages strung along Macedonia’s western frontier. The coalition of Islamist terrorists who rule that area pose a rising threat of extremist Muslim penetration to other parts of former Yugoslavia and their European neighbors, while turning Macedonia into their launching pad for terrorist attacks across Europe. However, the European governments who brokered the accord are restraining NATO and Macedonian forces from going after the al Qaeda and Hizballah leaders, fearing the Macedonian government will fall and the country revert to civil bloodshed between Macedonian Slavs and militant Albanians. In any case it might be too late for a limited operation. Local Skopjans report that the 30 wanted men have multiplied, joined in their Crna Gora mountain enclave by a small army of some thousand fighting men, who can be heard practicing in the use of automatic weapons, grenades and explosives.
Thunder from down under	Sadam Husein minding his own bussines not bothering any one anyway he let them in iraq da im pomini merakot na teroristite t.e NATO did they find anything Dont think so and they still want to bomb iraq WHYYYYYYYYYYYY SADAM IS EVIL MAN IS THEY EXCUSE ........KO NE GI CEPKA NIKOJ SO NE SI SEDAT MIRNI COMONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Canmak	LOL thats a funny sight..and in the western world people are allowed to say what they feel. Most of it is anti-war, anit gov't Bull shit and thats what I think about that site