| True Macedonia Were And "Are" Greek = WTF?! | |
| ace6vel | http://www.macedonia.info/ |
| Strelec | quote:Do Zemuna bre!:))) |
| ace6vel | i dajle :)) |
| n/a | quote:Do Germanija i Kanada!!! (za pechalba) :))) |
| OooOo | vojinst, shut the hell up and go do some abortions [:p] |
| MK Lion | quote:why dont you reply to my post? |
| MK Lion | cause your a bitch, that's why. |
| mafisKumA | There have been some interesting points raised in this debate and as such please refrain from name calling and insults and continue with the dialogue. |
| Thunder from down under | quote:abe do Indija |
| sapeski | quote:Most likely there weren't any intentions to insult certain group of people or generalize any nation. I would say the previous posts were pointed to voijnst only. However, I deeply apologize for any misunderstanding or misbehaviour that I might have done to insult any member of this forum on a national base. Sincerely. |
| n/a | quote:If you do not want to insult certain groups of people or generalize againt any nation than you should say "pichketina" instead of "srpska pichketina." The same goes for those who want to take the Serb country to Zemun and further. |
| n/a | Of course, it would be better not to say such things to people at all, but if you can't do that the above is good to start with. |
| n/a | quote:Take it easy, man. Don't call me a bitch just because I didn't reply to your post immediately. You make a good point that writing is subjective. Because of this, it is important to take into consideration when and by whom something was written. Science can also be subjective, i.e. the interpretation of facts derived can be. Several authors of that study are Makedonci who would probably like to send the water down their watermill. A single study does not persuade me. That said, this DNA typing is a tricky business, and you need to look at a lot of genes to make conclusions. I believe that all the people in the Balkans have mixed blood because there were many nations that assimilated one another here. As far as the Greek genes mentioned, a profesor of mine told me that they have very similar gene structure to the Turks, either because Turks assimilated many Greeks in Asia Minor or because Greeks mixed with the Turks a lot in the Balkans, so finding something weird in their blood does not sursprise me. |
| n/a | quote:Thunder, how come I understand your language very well if you are not a Slav? |
| n/a | A note to everyone: You cannot make a person believe something by breaking it into his or her head, and cursing and threatening ("bitch, srpska pichketina, shut the hell up and go do abortions, Makedonija do Zemuna, moderators ban vojinst" itd.) You were told in your books that Alexander was Macedonian that were distinct from Greeks and that you are somehow related to these people (although you speak a Slavic language and are very similar in language, looks and customs to the neighburing Slavic peoples). Fine. I and my parents (and millions of other people in my country) were taught that Macedonians and Alexander were Hellene (so culture in Hellene lands before him was called Helenska and after him Helenisticka after coming under the influence of the cultures to the East, such as the Persian), and that Serb neighbours in Macedonia are Slavs just like the Serbs. Such is the reality of our societies and educational systems. Do not send me more stuff about Alexander. Not because I do not want to read it, but because I am busy with preparing exams and because I have looked and seen that there is a lot of stuff already on the forum, and I haven't looked into it all. I will try to, at some ponit, write a more detailed opinion about this when I research it a bit more (unless someone kicks me out from the forum because I disagree with many on a number of points). U liturgiji svetog Jovana Zlatoustog se kaze: "Forgive me dear brothers and sisters all my sins and transgressions." Similarly, father Tadej, a holy elder from Serbia who recently died, used to say: "Your life is the way your thoughts are." Before directing heavy words and thoughts on each other we should all, you and I, remember these words. Best regards, Војин |
| fio | Леле напорен тип |
| n/a | quote:I am not conspiring but discussing; not against you but with you. quote:Without saying there were no Serb crimes (Serb communist crimes) in the recent wars, here are some things to think about: 1.)Why should Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia not have their own country when it was the Serbs, losing 28% of their population, that (liberated your country from the Turks and) created Yugoslavia in the first place? 2.) If Macedonians went ahead and fought the war until fully disarming UCK, instead of freezing the conflict to resume when Albanians find it the right time and EU loses interest in keeping Macedonia together, would you guys have a bad name now or not? With all the Albanians that would be temporarily displaced during the conflict, and all those BBC reporters filming them cry, maybe a forged (falsifikovan) massacre or two, all those Albanian lobbyists in the Clinton administration, you guys would probably be seen as the butchers of the Balkans. Keep this in mind when you mention your CNN generated "Serb bad name." MACEDONIA: THE PRESIDENT IS DEAD, HIS SAD LEGACY LIVES http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/News/Trifkovic04/NewsST022904.html If Kosovo manages to become independent, which wonder is going to save you country from splitting (this could only be delayed as you lose more territory through demographics and the municipality border change that Marko Polog was writing about - why not take a bigger cake?)? The only wonder, as I see it, that could stop this is a Serbia that manages to stop Kosovo from seceding, and persuads the internationals that border-changing has ended. |
| Thunder from down under | quote:that is not a slav language , that is the language that we give to your slavs so you catch up with civilisation and stop acting like a monkeys, else you would have still comunicate like a monkeys do, or speak some arabic language have a respect for what we have given to you all slavs |
| Thunder from down under | who killed your beloved king of yugoslavia? was he a greek or a Macedonian? i beleve it was Macedonian :))) |
| n/a | quote:How come Russians, and Polish, and all other Slavs speak a siimilar langauage with Macedonians. Did you give the language to several hundred million Slavs? |
| Thunder from down under | quote:THAT IS CORRECT |
| protivpropaganda | quote:vojinst, So, you feel the pressure when it is applied to you, but you do not feel it when you apply it on others. As I have already said "be nice to Macedonians and niceness WILL be returned to you with benefits. Be rude and insulting and you`ll feed our hunger for evildoings". I also think that you should not be so certain that you are slav or those so called slavs are actually slavs!!! By the way, where is the fatherland of the slavs. Are there any ruins discovered of any slav villages or towns anywhere on the face of this earth? Do you know where the oldest "slav" burial site is located at? Do you know the origin of that word "slav"? Do you know what actually is the Pan-slavic theory? Oh, btw, how do you say in your language "I celebrated my birthday"? Do answer this question it might prove to be very enlightning for you and others. You said: --I and my parents (and millions of other people in my country) were taught that Macedonians and Alexander were Hellene (so culture in Hellene lands before him was called Helenska and after him Helenisticka after coming under the influence of the cultures to the East, such as the Persian), and that Serb neighbours in Macedonia are Slavs just like the Serbs. Such is the reality of our societies and educational systems.-- Yes I agree such is the reality even in our educational sistem but is it realy reality or is it propaganda? My father was tought that the "slavs" crossed the Danube on foot, not boats. They breathed underwater, while crossing through barstraws. I was tought that St. Cyrril and St. Methodius were greeks. Do you believe this is true? And yes this also is reality, or is it? Just one more thing, we all, no matter where we live, more or less live under what is called pop-culture society. This society is of american origin which only means that we are all "americanized", just as in ancient times the Hellenes spread their culture and the Romans did the same. Are we, I mean you and I americans because we live in a pop-culture society? Do have the courage to answer me!!! |
| Bravo | Hey Vojnist , you gotta agree on that one , that the beggining of education , in the form of accepting the new alphabet , by "Sv. Kiril I Metodij" , actually has started from Macedonia , Solun, in that time , part of Macedonia.I am sure that you won t negotiate this , couse any attemp to conect this two Holly Brothers , with greek heratige or history, will be totally silly:))...otherwise , what nationality they could be?....and one thing I want to say to Thunder from under ... dude , try do not be pround of Vlado Chernozemski, couse he might have macedonian origin , but the assassination in Marrselie,FRA ..ain t somethin that we , macedonians should bounce for ...actually as I know he comited it under fucken bulgarian influence:( So long my friends |
| Ceki | quote:As i know Macedonians and Croatians together killed "the KING" . I didnt heard anything about bulgarians. |
| protivpropaganda | quote:I am not conspiring but discussing; not against you but with you. Yes you are meddling and by that conspiring!!! Who the f..k are you to tell us who we are and what is your need to do so? [quote]Most serbs today recognize Macedonians for what they trully are and for what they have done for all the slavic people in the past (literacy and religion with which they are so proud of). Those few idiots who without the Macedonian truth would stand to lose individual privileges are those that give todays serbs a bad name and lets not forget the fools who do not know better.[/quote] 1.)... when it was the Serbs, losing 28% of their population, that (liberated your country from the Turks and) created Yugoslavia in the first place? Excuuuuuuse me!?!?![:0] I think that you have your lions crossed here. Those so called serbs only had serbian last names because of the serbian occupation at the time. Maaan!!! How deep did you suck it in from the greeks!!! My greatgrandfather and one of his brothers died in that liberation and let me tell you that they were not serbs. YOU HAVE NEVER WON A WAR AND ARE DAMN PROUD OF IT, REMEMBER THIS!!! Oh, by the way, also the Solun front wasn`t fought by serbs but by Macedonians with serbian last names. Wait a minute... Did you mean to call me/ us southern serbs???[:(!] 2.) If Macedonians went ahead and fought the war until fully disarming UCK, instead of freezing the conflict to resume when Albanians find it the right time and EU loses interest in keeping Macedonia together, would you guys have a bad name now or not? With all the Albanians that would be temporarily displaced during the conflict, and all those BBC reporters filming them cry, maybe a forged (falsifikovan) massacre or two, all those Albanian lobbyists in the Clinton administration, you guys would probably be seen as the butchers of the Balkans. Keep this in mind when you mention your CNN generated "Serb bad name." You are an inch away from pissing me off and let me tell you that it takes a special kind of a fool to do that, are you one of those? You are talking to a person who gave blood and lobbied for humanitarian aid for the serbs when the bombing occured!!! BTW go and ask the kosovar serbs that live there what kind of warriors we trully are. If by any chance any albanians succeed in radicalizing the Macedonians to the point of no return then you will see what a massacre trully is. As I said only fools who do not know better step over the Macedonian threshold of patience. If Kosovo manages to become independent, which wonder is going to save you country from splitting (this could only be delayed as you lose more territory through demographics and the municipality border change that Marko Polog was writing about - why not take a bigger cake?)? The only wonder, as I see it, that could stop this is a Serbia that manages to stop Kosovo from seceding, and persuads the internationals that border-changing has ended. The only thing that a Serbia can do in this situation is to lose again and be proud of it!!! If we lose territory it will only be because we didn`t fight for it and we deserve to lose it. There is a saying that goes: Nothing is yours if you can not keep it! It is true that we are being prepped up for another albanian incursion through propaganda but it does not necesarily mean that they will succeed. Macedonia shouldn`t have existed when the shooting started in 2001. Well, as I said, we spitefully will not die out. Somebody thought that we were going to desintegrate as a country but what really happened was a call to arms and for genocide by the people not by the government (Macedonian government isn`t the true image of the Macedonian people, remember this). The call was so strong that it possesed a threat of no ablility to contain the feelings of the people further. Thats when it was decided to start peace talks because the people could not be kept quiet any longer. Don`t you worry about us, worry about yourself. P.S. Out of all that had been said, this is all you had to comment on? |
| Christian | ne znam so tepate vreme so vojinst,ubavo vikam baniraj go covekot i dosta veke. I Gospod da se simne i da mu ja kaze vistinata pak nema da veruva. Vojinst ako imas nesto arno da kazes, togas bujrum.Ako ne. aj ne ja tupi i fakaj patot od tuka. Od luge kako tebe preku glava na Makedonski forumi. |
| Maverik | quote:Vlado Cernozemski e del od Vrhovistickata VMRO na Vanco Mihaljov. Toj go izvsuva atentatot potmognat od Hrvatskoto nacionalisticko dvizenje. VMRO vrhivisticka e delot za koj Bravo veli deka atentatot e so bugarsko vlijanie. |
| n/a | A message from my friend. I showed him the link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&dopt=Abstract that MKLion gave us about genes: P.S. Given that I manage to understand your Macedonian, I think you'll have a good idea about what this means in Serbian. ----- Forwarded message---------- vojo, ako ti neki makedonac ponudi ovaj naucni rad kao dokaz da su oni (makedonci) stariji od grka i da je grcka kultura u stvari makedonska kultura (kao sto verovatno neki od njih tvrde), skreni mu paznju na vremenski okvir seoba o kojima pricaju geneticari u ovakvim studijama (koje mogu da budu nacno sasvim validne). filip ima primerak jednog clanka koji se isto tako bavi genetskom slikom raznih populacija u evropi, pogledaj na internetu: http://web.mit.edu/fantic/Public/Science.pdf . primetices da se vremenski okvir migracija o kojima pricaju ovakve studije smesta negde izmedju 10 i 30 hiljada godina pre nas, znaci mnogo pre i egipatske i grcke civilizacije. dakle, cak i ako je istina da su davni preci grka dosli iz sadasnje etiopije, to je bilo mnogo pre nego sto su oni izgradili svoju cuvenu kulturu. uostalom, u vremenu pomenutih seoba, nije bilo ni govora o postojnju nacija u sadasnjem smislu reci. od tada je svaka populacija sa odredjenog podrucja promenila jedno 10-tak religija, kultura i jezika, a samim tim i svest o sopstvenom identitetu. cak su i rasne karakteristike (boja ociju, kose, rast, oblik glave) formirane tek posle tih seoba! primetices takodje da se zakljucci takvih studija izvode na osnovu % stanovnistva jedne nacije u kome se javlja odredjeni genetski marker i da se znacajno razlicitim smatraju npr. 10% i 40%. sta to znaci? da su npr. grci 10% najstariji na tom podrucju, a makedonci 40% najstariji na tom podrucju. i eto, na osnovu tako male razlike u genotipu geneticari vole da izvode pretenciozne zakljucke... ----- End forwarded message ----- |
| n/a | quote:Definitely. Staroslovenski, a classical language on par with Ancient Greek and Latin, the language that blessed us the Slavs with the word of Christ, is the language of Macedonian Slavs from around Salonika. I think all Orthodox Christian Slavs should study it in school, and you have reasons to lead the way, be the first, with this. quote:To the best of my knowledge they were Hellenes from Salonika who learned the language of their Slavic neighbours. Живели, Војин |
| n/a | quote:This is how I was taught: http://www.vmro.org/istorija.htm#rob Безспорен връх в нелегалната борба на ВМРО срещу враговете на българщината в Македония е екзекуцията на сръбския крал Александър Караджорджевич извършено от Владо Черноземски в Марсилия на 9 октомври 1934 г. Това е справедливото наказание на тиранина на Македония, който проля кръвта на хиляди невинни, за да направи от гордите българи край Вардара "южни сърби". Атентатът в Марсилия бе техния отговор. ("ВМРО не обръща своите погледи ни на запад, ни на изток, ни другаде, тя разчита предимно на своите сили, не става оръжие никому и не ще позволи никой да си служи с нейното име и престиж за лични или други цели. Досега тя е показала и ще докаже това и в бъдеще, че в своите дела изхожда от интересите на борческа Македония и българското племе".) All Serbian sources say that he was Bulgarian by national self-determination, even if born in Macedonia. http://www.vj.yu/publikacije/Informator/inform4-2003.htm 9. oktobar 1934. Hrvatske ustase, italijanski fasisti i bugarski vmrovci izvrsili su u Marselju atentat na kralja Aleksandra Karadjordjevica. |
| protivpropaganda | quote:vojinst, If you ever see a green horse, then you will probably see a serb with intelligence. (Romanian saying) You are a fool of epic proportion. A silly person who has no life. The genetic testing that has been done, has been done scientifically for the sole purpose of classifying the inhabitants of the country Macedonia. The wife of my friend had been tested and has recieved a document from the European genetists who have done those studies that states that she belongs to and I quote "Tipus Makedonicus". That`s right, a European document from a sovereign and recognised European institution. So did all the others that were tested, by the way!!![:0] Have at least the courage and decency to recognise these facts and answer the questions I have put forth to you, you idiot!!![:(!] |
| n/a | quote:Actually, I think the parallel does not apply fully. I was simply disagreeing about history, and wasn't threatening or offending individuals. quote:You are asking to many questions[:)] Pan-slavic historians say Slavs were a huge tribe that conquered the world thrice. Milosh Milojevic from the end of the 19th century, and Jovan Deretic who died just recently stand out from those that I know. The point is that whoever we, the Slavs, are, we are in it together, both the Serbs and Macedonians[:D]. Even if all this that they say were true, what makes my identity is Orthodoxy, St. Sava, the Battle of Kosovo 1389, the 1804 uprising againt the Turks. Not these ancient times bedtime stories. I also think that this story with ancient roots is recent among your people, and as something that did not make the identity of your people over time (and yes, some people on this forum say that there was such a continuity, but I think this definitely false) is unusual to be the focus of your national self-identification. quote:Proslavio sam svoj rodjendan. Прославио сам свој рођендан. quote:Protivpropaganda: "Yes I agree such is the reality even in our educational sistem but is it realy reality or is it propaganda? My father was tought that the "slavs" crossed the Danube on foot, not boats." Voјин: Whatever. Protivpropaganda: "They breathed underwater, while crossing through barstraws." Војин: Actually, that source says this is how they were hiding in some swamps. Protivpropaganda:"I was tought that St. Cyrril and St. Methodius were greeks. Do you believe this is true?" Војин: Yes, I do. Protivpropaganda: "Just one more thing, we all, no matter where we live, more or less live under what is called pop-culture society. This society is of american origin which only means that we are all "americanized", just as in ancient times the Hellenes spread their culture and the Romans did the same. Are we, I mean you and I americans because we live in a pop-culture society?" Војин: What is your point? Cheers, Воја |
| n/a | Why do many people have this need to call others names when they disagree with them? It's sad.
quote:I didn't notice anywhere that this forum is Macedonians-only. Why I am not meddling: a.) Your interpretations of history affect your foreign policy that affects my nation, and other neighbours. b.) Anything that happens among the Orthodox is internal to me because I am Orthodox as well. quote:a.) No draft could be made on Turkish territory that Macedonia was in 1912. Thus, I Balkan War was fought by Serbs from today's Central Serbia (No Vojvodina, no Kosovo). b.) 1913 and 1914-1918 Macedonia was a part of Serbia, so I guess, and you know better, that they were drafting in Macedonia as well. God bless your late ancestors. Nevertheless, Serbia lost 28%, 1.4 million people. This figure does include Macedonia (and the whole of Vardar Macedonia couldn't have had more than 1 million people in total). However, the percent is for the whole country. I would be surprised if Macedonian portion of deaths is greater than proportional. The biggest deaths were due to Austrian killings in the North, and widrawal through Albania (hundreds of thousands), and I would be surprised if Macedonians were widrawing through Albania (like Serbs from the north of Serbia) when they could just send them to Solun directly down Vardar. You also suffered from Bulgarians, but just as the South Serbians from Vranje, Surdulica etc. Whether there were Macedonians in Salonika I do not know, but there were many Serbs, and many more died reaching there. If you have some sources about Macedonians in WWI please do post them, or just give reference to the book. Thanks. No, I am not calling you Southern Serbs. I was arguing that Serb deaths give over-Drina Serbs right to statehood, mentioning expulsion of Turks from Macedonia was a side point. quote:Thanks for blood and lobbying. There is a book about this: "MAKEDONIJA, ZEMLJA DOBRIH LJUDI" by LJILJANA JANACKOVIC, the wife of ambassador of F.R. Yugoslavia in Skopje in 1999. http://www.knjigainfo.com/index.php?gde=@http%3A//www.knjigainfo.com/pls/sasa/bip.osoba%3Fo_id%3D56@ I hope no massacres ever happen in your country. quote:Good luck in defending your country. I hope you will not have a need to do this but I am of a different impression. Keep one thing in mind. I was talking to an Albanian girl from Kosovo and in telling me why Kosovo should become independent she said: "Well, this is what we were fighting for." Well, life is such that you do not always get what you want or were fighting for. Albanians would fight back, have no fear. They have more money for lobbying, in your country and abroad. Your post-neo-communist elite does not instill trust in me. As I said, good luck. quote:I did not want to expand the discussion. My opinion is that the Macedonian national identity is a 20th century phenomenon, and we cannot agree on this. I prefer to stick to culture and religion because I know this is a sensitive topic on your forum. |
| n/a | quote:Hey, man, give me a break. If you want to talk to me stop offending me. quote:Which institution? Which genetists? Dimitroski K., Blagoevska M., and Zdravkovska V. from MK Lion's post, or maybe some others? quote:What did you prove with this. If, as you say, "genetic testing ... has been done ... for the sole purpose of classifying the inhabitants of the country Macedonia" than what do you find surprisng about classyfying them as "Tipus Makedonicus." Did you expect that they will call them "Tipus Germanicus." That's probably reserved for the study of the people in Germany. What you should be asking is what are the characteristics of this "Tipus Makedonicus." Is it close to other Slavic peoples, or not? Does it have more pre-Slavic Balkan blood than Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats? For example, Figure 3 on page 4 of my friend's article: http://web.mit.edu/fantic/Public/Science.pdf puts Macedonian in the same quadrant as a number of Slavic peoples (Czech, Polish, Ukrainian), and Hungarians who have tons of Slavic blood. How does all this prove that Kirilo and Metodije were not Hellenes? quote:Buy yourself a punching bag. Punch hard! Come back relaxed, and talk to others politely. Поздрав, Воја |
| Thunder from down under | ti ke imas pravo za drugi da zborvis vojo ,od koga ke se napravi testiranje na Tipus Glupanikus (a name reserved for stubborn serbians like you) |
| protivpropaganda | [quote]Originally posted by vojinst
Actually, I think the parallel does not apply fully. I was simply disagreeing about history, and wasn't threatening or offending individuals. Actually you are, but because it doesn`t apply to you, you do not feel it or you are just maliciously acting in order to fullfil some need of yours! You are asking to many questions[:)] Questions you do not have answers to!!! Pan-slavic historians say Slavs were a huge tribe that conquered the world thrice. Milosh Milojevic from the end of the 19th century, and Jovan Deretic who died just recently stand out from those that I know. Do you think that pan-slavic historians would say anything otherwise. The point is that whoever we, the Slavs, are, we are in it together, both the Serbs and Macedonians[:D]. I agree, but that is a different topic. BTW, why do you insist in supporting the greeks and not those that you have a lot in common. Брат, брата не храни, но тешко му на тој кој го нема. Remember this one. Anyway the way you are acting it is hard to believe that one wants to be a brother with another. Get your priorities straight!!! Even if all this that they say were true, what makes my identity is Orthodoxy, St. Sava, the Battle of Kosovo 1389, the 1804 uprising againt the Turks. Orthodoxy is a form of a christian religion, not an identifier!!! St. Sava was sent by the Ohridian Archbishopry (by Macedonians) to assist in baptising and christianising your ancestors (the serbs), you lost at kosovo and we have been uprising against the turks way before that. Not these ancient times bedtime stories. Those ancient bedtime stories are being exploited in order to violate our right to existence. We didn`t start this foolishnes BUT WE SURE ARE GOING TO FINISH IT!!! I also think that this story with ancient roots is recent among your people, and as something that did not make the identity of your people over time (and yes, some people on this forum say that there was such a continuity, but I think this definitely false) is unusual to be the focus of your national self-identification. Macedonians who have lived under the boot of socialist control were being, in every way, forced into believing what the soc. government wanted. The free Macedonians, those living outside of the tight grip of the control of soc. were free to speak out!!! There are many old tales of our greatest king who have survived. Oh, btw, how do you say in your language "I celebrated my birthday"? Do answer this question it might prove to be very enlightning for you and others. Proslavio sam svoj rodjendan. Прославио сам свој рођендан. Про слав ио Во тнр. старословенски, зборот за секој не грк кој ја прифатил христијанската вера беше славен, односно славјен. Тоа означуваше некој кој е славен од Бога! Лугето, народите кои ја прифатија верата беа нарекувани славјени народи. Тука не можам да пишувам со оригиналните букви за да се види дека со природното губење на буквата „ЈА“ покрај „Јеровите и Јоровите“ остана од славјени, зборот славени, односно словени. Сега би требало да ти биде појасно доколку не си тендециозен!!! Protivpropaganda: "Yes I agree such is the reality even in our educational sistem but is it realy reality or is it propaganda? My father was tought that the "slavs" crossed the Danube on foot, not boats." Voјин: Whatever. If it`s "whatever" then why do you persist in your silliness. Protivpropaganda: "They breathed underwater, while crossing through barstraws." Војин: Actually, that source says this is how they were hiding in some swamps. Wrong source on your part. I was citing a history book of an elementary school in the 1950`s!!! Protivpropaganda:"I was tought that St. Cyrril and St. Methodius were greeks. Do you believe this is true?" Војин: Yes, I do. You`d believe that donkeys fly if it suited you!!![:(!] Protivpropaganda: "Just one more thing, we all, no matter where we live, more or less live under what is called pop-culture society. This society is of american origin which only means that we are all "americanized", just as in ancient times the Hellenes spread their culture and the Romans did the same. Are we, I mean you and I americans because we live in a pop-culture society?" Војин: What is your point? My point is that those that rule at one time force their culture on everyone else. The Macedonians are greek as much as you and I are americans!!! Get it now or do I have to draw it for you? Now because you can`t answer the questions or you don`t want to because they will prove that everything you have believed in is false, one big lie created for someones interests to be upheld, I will, in short answer them for you: By the way, where is the fatherland of the slavs. Nowhere!!! Are there any ruins discovered of any slav villages or towns anywhere on the face of this earth? No there are not!!! Do you know where the oldest "slav" burial site is located at? In Macedonia[:0] In the location Isar Marvinci. Do you know the origin of that word "slav"? Now you do!!! Do you know what actually is the Pan-slavic theory? It is the Russian wish to become a colonial force and to reach and to control the Mediterenean which had been stopped by the then already existing colonial forces by Hellenizing a tribe of grekois. Nothing more, nothing less!!! Still not convinced? OK! Live in your wonderland. Maybe by giving your butt to the greeks you will have some luck with the international community and maybe you will finaly win something. But remember it is hard to be an asslicker now. There is much competition. |
| Gazment | quote:Bravo za Grcite! Kolku i ova da e shit, samo e primer za toa kako se vrshi propaganda. Nesto sto nas ni fali i zatoa go jademe[:)] |
| ace6vel | abe da mi e priraka toj so go napisal nema bel den da vidi veke :) |
| n/a | I have a problem with the Greeks. They say Macedonia is theirs (only) although larger chunk of it is inhabited by Slavic population today. This would be the same as if the Serbs were to say that "true Kosovans and Metohians were and are Serbs" as if the Albanians who know live there are not "true" just because they came later to the region. However, I also have a problem with people who are saying that Alexander was not a Hellene and that Macedonia was not fully Greek in the past. This is rubish, a historicist fallacy. |
| ace6vel | Let us think about something in the past Aleksandar The Great he has a war or something like that with the Greeks or Hellens w/e and after that when he won the become something in HIS region, SO tell me how can Aleksandar The Great be "greek" when he was fighting AGAIns them in the past?! |
| n/a | Could you tell me precisely whom and when? Greek states were fighting each other like crazy throughout their pre-Roman (then Byzantine) history. For example, Athena and Sparta were great enemies but both were and are Hellene. Best, Војин |
| Maverik | yes they were fighting like crazy among them, but the fact is that they got united to fight off Filip and Alezanders army. The greeks than hated the Macedonians (as they do today also) and because of that lot of them were fighting on the side of Persia. And it is realy strange, how it is possible for the greeks to run and fight together with the Persians (their most hated enemy until than) against Alexander, who was greek???????? Doesn't make any logic does it. |
| n/a | Maybe because he was stronger than any other Greek state. Alexander was Greek, and Macedonia was Greek, and you guys should live with this. Today, it is not just Greek, and the Greeks shuld live with that. Војин |
| marko_polog | quote:By your words, you do not recognize Ethnic Macedonians, If I am not mistaken I believe you are a Serb, now when the Albanians in the future destroy every trace of evidence(people, churches, cemeteries etc..) that Serbs ever lived in Kosovo, An Albanian can try to convince the World that Serbs never lived their, they never existed their and so on. For every argument you come up with that Alexander was Greek, I have ten that says he was Macedonian and we can go on like this forever which is exactly what Greeks want, on the other hand they NEVER answer documented facts of recent history, like the burning of Macedonian homes, churches, destruction of cemeteries etc..Ethnic cleansing the same as in Kosovo. Their is hundreds of things I can list you, over 1 millions Greeks from Asia Minor shipped to Macedonia in the early 1920's when Greece and Turkey exchanged populations, why was Macedonian name removed by Greece and it called "New Territory" until the late 1980's, I'm not going to list you hundreds of facts, just dont tell a Macedonian to live with anything especially when you dont have a clue about the recent past of Macedonia, but yet you are so convinced about your theories of Ancient times. I want you to use some common sense next time before you write about this subject and to remember one important detail, Only an Ethnic Macedonian can be proud of a Sovereign Republic of Macedonia, I mean I hope that's logical enough for you to understand. |
| Maverik | quote:yeah right, maybe also the persians were also greek, that is why they were fighting with them against Alexander, if this is true than the people from todays Irak and Iran are Greeks as well Bravo be vojinst sekoja ti cest, |
| Thunder from down under | quote:Alexander conquered greeks,wtf are you talking about man are you comedian or something ? |
| Christian | vojinst a da otides malce treva da popasis,Aleksandar e grk kolku sto e i mojot lev tasak. MRs UPM i ti i site ko tebe. |
| ace6vel | vojinst you are wring there is no such a thing that can prove that Aleksandar The Great was a greek nor that his father Filip II was greek nor that Macedonia is greek there are no facts you can say whatever you want about that but you know what you can just dream and HOPE that Aleksandar THe Great was greek and that MACEDONIA is Greece! Never |
| Thunder from down under | quote: quote:conquest of Greece occurred in 338 BC at Chaeronea in Boeotia, when Philip beat the Athenians and their allies. |
| ace6vel | The marvellous exploits of Alexander the Great startled and thrilled the world. East and West vied with each other in paying him divine honours during his life and after his death. Myths and legends woven around him, embroidered with all the glowing colours of imagination spread through the Continents. The lands he conquered and those beyond them told his tales in diverse tongues. Greek and Latin, Syriac and Arabic,[1] Ethiopic, Hebrew, Samaritan, Armenian, Persian, English and French, German and Italian, and even Scandinavian languages of Europe, Asia, and Africa enshrined in prose and verse the immortal romance of the Macedonian Prince. Those were the days when religion held sway over the minds of men. His tolerance of faiths other than his own, his cosmopolitan outlook in matters religious, inspired as it was by a deep vein of mysticism helped him[2] “wherever he went to treat with respect the local religion.” His attitude towards the religion of the Persians, his greatest adversaries, the destruction of their sacred books at Persepolis is one of the rare exceptions to the rule of his general tolerance. The Arabs worshipped him as Iskandar[3] Dhu’lquarnein (two horned Alexander) and even Islam[4] adopted Iskandar among her prophets, and carried his forgotten fame back into India. He was the first Aryan monarch to become a God.[5] |
| ace6vel | Alexander and Greek Conflicts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alexander ascended to the Macedonian throne after the murder of his father, and the kingdom was in trouble immediately. Greek cities, like Athens and Thebes, which had pledged allegiance to Philip, were unsure if they wished to do the same for a twenty-year-old boy. Likewise, northern barbarians that Philip had subdued were threatening to break away from Macedonia and wreak havoc in the north. Alexander's advisors sug gested that he let Athens and Thebes go and to be gentle with the barbarians to prevent a revolt. However, Alexander felt that the best thing to do was to be decisive and swift. Therefore Alexander marched quickly north and drove the rebelling barbarian s beyond the Danube River and out of the way. Arrian related the story of how Alexander dealt with Thebes and Athens. There were rumors in these cities that Alexander had been killed, and that the time was right for them to separate themselves from Macedonia. Instead, in the fall of 335 B.C.E., Ale xander marched up to the gates of Thebes, and let them know that it was not too late for them to change their minds. The Thebans responded with a small contingent of soldiers, which Alexander repelled with archers and light infantrymen. The next day, Alexander's general, Perdiccas, attacked the gates. Arrian claims that he did so before Alexander gave a signal; Diodorus says that the signal had been given. Regardless, the battle had begun. Perdiccas broke through and into the city, an d Alexander moved the rest of his force in behind to prevent the Thebans from cutting Perdiccas off from the rest. The Macedonians then stormed the city, killing almost everyone in sight, women and children included. They plundered, sacked, burned and r azed Thebes, as an example to the rest of Greece. Athens then rethought its decision to abandon Alexander. He came to terms with them that maintained the status quo as under Philip. While visiting Athens to seal the pact, Alexander visited the Oracle at Delphi, despite it being a day when giving prophecy was forbidden. In his attempts to drag the priestess to the place where she gave her oracles, she screamed: "My son, you are invincible!" That was all that Alexander wanted to hear, and he departed, in the spring of 334 B.C.E., for Asia. |
| ace6vel | Read here about his biography http://www.biography.com/search/article.jsp?aid=9180468&search=Alexander+The+Great |
| ace6vel | So vojinst do you see somwhere that is written that Aleksandar The Great was Greek exept on greek pages ? NO so...... which is true the Macedonian one or the Greek one ? |
| DJ_SHEMA | Vrti suchi so sekoj moment kade grcite ja spomnuvaat Makedonija ni pravat nas usluga. Ni ja propagiraat drzavata i imeto. Tipichen Amerikanec go zabole sho bilo grik ili ne grik. |
| ace6vel | pa vo pravo si da ne se pocnese borba za imeto nekoj i ne ke znaea deka postoime ali so da se pravi koga sme takva drzava :) |
| n/a | quote:Your words do not go well with the symbol of the Cross that you are using. Change the words or change the symbol. Војин |
| sapeski | However, and I used to have a thought on your christianity remarks and knowhlege in history and your opinions in general. All you need is shovel. |
| n/a | quote:What my teacher told me is that there is Macedonia, and it has three parts. Vardar (teken by Serbs in 1912, now Republic of Macedonia), Pirin (taken by Bulgaria) and Egey (taken by Greece). The Greeks have Egey now, and this is what I mean when I say that not all Macedonia is Greek today. I believe you that there has been ethnic cleansing by the Greeks in Egey, but that does not mean that there were no Greeks in the region in 1912. It is not only the Greeks that say that Alexander was Hellene, but most of the world. So does my teacher, and the books I read about him once upon a time in school. When you talk about Ethnic Macedonians do you talk about current ones or Alexander's ones? quote:I have plenty of common sense, just as you seem to have from your posts about UCK, but we do not agree on Alexander being Hellene. As far as pride in R.Macedonia is concerned, I do not see how I touched upon that topic. Another thing that puzzles me is why do you guys consider Alexander so important to you? Even if he wasn't Hellene, he definitely wasn't a Slav, while you guys are. He wasn't even a Christian. For example, Constantine the Great - the founder of Eastern Roman Empire who made Christianity the official religion in the whole Empire - was born in Nish, Serbia. We Serbs like this fact, it's nice to know this when you visit Nish, but he is not a national hero because he was not a Serb. |
| n/a | quote:Sapeski, Are you talking to me? Why shovel? I simply was not taught what most people here seem to have been taught. Is this a reason to come up with a shovel? Војин |
| Thunder from down under | quote:you are slav my friend , we macedonians have nothing to do with the second class ,lazy no good russian that were kicked out from there and inhabited balkan, the good russians are still in russia the rabish ones were kicked out from there , and now call them self serbs |
| Gazment | quote:You are completely right. Instead of working to improve the relationship with Greece as a neighbor that is financially the strongest, member of EU, NATO, we first put the stupid Vergina flag, then one of the biggest Macedonian party announces that they will hold their next meeting in Solun, and other crap that was non existent before 1991 and was made in wake of nationalism in the Balkans. Same in Greece. In 1990 in Souln you would never see any sign of Vergina or Macedonia like today. But most of the people in this region are stupid and narrow-minded and instead of looking in the future, they waste everyone's time with bullshit like Alexander the Great and his origin. We wasted 10 good years. Instead of consolidating, organizing, making strategy as per Slovenia’s example, we are today one stinky country that wannabe part of EU. But, Alexander is Macedonian, and Solun is ours.[:D] |
| Christian | quote:zborovite se na mesto, samo se dava do znaenje deka jas sum od krv i meso i deka sum covek so cuvstva.Samo Isus e sovrsen,jas ne sum. I dosta ja tupis na forumov, gi ,molam adminstratorite na forumov da go baniraat ovoj vojinst. PS.God's word above all things. |
| marko_polog | quote:What a fool, It is NOT Macedonia or Macedonians that are causing the problems, every country has the right to self-determination. Everybody knows and its no big secret that Greece HAS to justify somehow the occupation of Macedonian territory and Ancient fairy-tales is what they use to justify themselves. And how do we go about improving the relationship with Greece? It wasn't enough that "your" politicians changed the name and flag, tell me what else needs to be done to improve the relations, you must have the answer. And don't compare Macedonia to Slovenia, Slovenia has no problems with her neighbors, Let Europe live up to her standards and stop supporting Terrorists, let Europe live up to her standards and allow a Nation her right of self-determination and you will see how fast Macedonia prospers. I personally believe the EU has to look at itself in the mirror and live up to the standards that it tries to oppose to as you say wannabe members, EU at this point are nothing but hypocrits when it comes to the Macedonian issue. |
| dejan | These Greeks will go to any extent to prove to the world that 'Macedonia' is their's. They put so much effort into it all, and time, that's why some Olympic buildings arn't even constructed yet:\ They should focus on the Olympics not on this type of issue. They try so hard but no one listens to them. Does this mean now that Pirin Macedonia is another place that is really Macedonian and nothing else? That website tells people in a subtle way that the Greeks stole our part of the country. Even if our name isn't Macedonia, Republic of. But just FYR Macedonia, the important thing is that the word Macedonia is still there so HA to the Greeks, another abortive attempt to lie to the world. |
| Thunder from down under | quote:dejan, they are very succsesifull in bullshiting to the world mate , belive me, there was a afghanistani boy at school that he just come from afghanistan few years ago, and i was having a very hard time convincing him that alexandar was a Macedonian, i could not belive that even in afghanistan they teach them that alexandar was a greek [}:)][}:)][}:)] i was shocked |
| protivpropaganda | You will all be surprised to learn that, YES, Alexander the Great is greek!!![:0] That is, he became greek after 1989-1990. His kingdom is also greek.[:0] But only after 1989-1990. Before that the greeks considered or better yet propagated the Macedonians to be extinct. It is strange enough to learn that one isn`t what he is only because someone else says he isn`t but to claim that one is what he is because of some conspicuously determined ancient ancestors is a folly beyond any recognition. We are as much, or even more, Macedonian than the greeks are Hellenes. Check out some of the latest genetic research that had been done and the result before the greek`s interventions. We are as much slavs, genetically speaking, as are the inhabitants on the teritory behind the Carpathian mountains similiar to the Aztecs. Interesting isn`t it? As for the Hellenic origin of todays greeks... well let us just say that their origin is somewhere in the sub-saharic region, genetically speaking, ofcourse, while the Hellenes were a mediteranean people as we are. HMMMMM What puzzles me here is that a proclaimed serb is meddling and conspiring against us. It is intriguing how some halfwitts forget from where there literacy and religion came from. They consider the greeks as brothers and not those to whom they all should have deep appreciation of. Because if it weren`t for our existence they would have prayed to the pope instead of to God (my sincere apologies to the good catholics). Well, I guess that should be enough for the so called serb who doesn`t know who his true friends and allies were and are and where his loyalties should lay. Interesting enough are some facts that are not so well known which state that the Macedonians went north and not that the slavs came south. In any way who cares. If a man is to be good, in a moral sense, in these modern days he should not question the others determination unless he has hidden motives which are not so good, again said in the moral sense. Most serbs today recognize Macedonians for what they trully are and for what they have done for all the slavic people in the past (literacy and religion with which they are so proud of). Those few idiots who without the Macedonian truth would stand to lose individual privileges are those that give todays serbs a bad name and lets not forget the fools who do not know better. The most puzzling thing about all of this is the fact that even in these highly civilised times where the humans have reached high proportions of prosperity, have accomplished an enormous leap forward in almost all known fields from medicine to philosophy to all sciences ever known are we still hackling over something that has happened 2000 years ago. It is childish to say the least, but unfortunately it is necessary because we also live in troubled times (as always) where the troubled, trouble the others. The fact remains that the Macedonian name and the Macedonian spitefully WILL not die out against all odds. Our resolve grows proportionally to the growth of the attacks upon us. Well, let`s just say that some people will never learn that if one is kind to a Macedonian he recieves kindness back with added bonuses, but if he is unkind all he does is he feeds our, as it looks like it, genetically inherited hunger for evildoings. Yep some people never learn!!! |
| MK Lion | vojinst there is something you have to consider. Any article that is written by a person on a topic is subjective. If a Greek person writes something about Alexander, it will have a Greek point of view associated with it. If a Macedonian person writes about Alexander, it will have a Macedonians point of view attached to it. So current and past literature has to be taken into the context it was written in. Something from the past can be written by anyone and at any time. Whether it is what has actually happened, really cannot be determined. No factual evidence can be derived from a writing that is subjective. The Greeks have proclaimed time and time again, that Macedonians dont exist, and that we are just Slavs. They are entitled to their opinion, but that is exactly what that is, just an opinion. There is no factual evidence to support their claims, that Macedonians dont exist, and that the current Macedonians are just Greeks. They can bring up as many books and literature sources written by historians at the time, but who is to say these are the truth?? Who is to say these are accountable documents of what occured at that time? Who is to say these subjective resources that come from a single persons mind are really accountable for what had happened in the past?? With that said, take a look at this. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&dopt=Abstract I have been studying Biology for the past 5 years, and believe me when I say that studies such as the one above, are as close to FACT as can be. This is not subjective writing, written by a person who is influenced by external sources. This is a study that was conducted, not written by a subjective person, giving their point of view on a specific topic. This is a scientific study, done with proper controls and trials and it is the truth. If this study had claimed the opposite, that Macedonians were slavs or greeks, then I would believe that to be true. But it does not. Now Im sorry, but this is the truth, and you and others have to come to terms with this. This is inarguable fact that has just been presented to you. You cannot argue this, or say that it is untrue. That is not an option here. This is biological fact, and the Macedonians were seperate people from the Greeks, and they are part of the older substrata of Europe. What I really love about this study is that a lot of the Macedonian claims are beginning to be legitimized. Scientific studies such as this are as close to the truth as you can get. And I would believe a scientific study first before I believe a subjective piece of writing that comes from the mind of one person. |
| Rommel | voijinist speculation: everything u said FACT: MAKEDONIJA DO VRANJE! |
| Thunder from down under | ostajte go be dete e nekoe 13 godisno , inaet samo praj, nisto ne se razbira |
| mafisKumA | Stram da vi je i na Makedonci i na Serbi. [:(!][:(!][:(!] Do nekni se vikavte brajca a deneska oci si vadite [:(]. Samo prodolzete vaka pa obavezno ke ve zezat i ke ve dupat i grci i bugari i sekoj eden drug sto imat koris da ve vidi deka nemozite zajedno da se slagate. Pomislete malce, ista vera sne, skoro isti jazik imame, isti tabijeti i bevne isti narod. [:(] |
| element | quote:hrvati,bosanci,serbi ist jazik razlicna vera; slovenci dr jazik katolici; srbi,makedonci,bugari, pravoslavni zarem site gorenavedenite ne se od ista grupa na jazici[?] |