| Тешко до ЕУ членство за Македонија |
| IvanC |
Baroso Excludes Fast Enlargement of EU on Balkans
(Reported on electronic media on 23. 07. 2004)
It should not be expected that the EU, after the admission of Bulgaria,
Romania, Croatia, and possibly Turkey, to admit new members of the Western Balkans
countries. This is what the new president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel
Durao Barroso stated after the European Parliament confirmed his appointment. According to Barroso, the three Balkans countries – Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia are
progressing towards an admission in the EU, while the Union will decide about the
possible beginning of negotiations with Turkey. “When it comes to the remaining
countries, we should develop the policy of close neighbourhood in this phase,” the EC
president said, alluding on the European policy towards the countries in the region
that are offered certain privileges in trade, but not in membership. Barroso
assesses that this it is an interest of the Union, at the moment, to create a zone of
stability, security and prosperity in the region. “We do for sure not exclude the
possibility of the admission of new members, but for the time being we should not engage in that direction,” the new most senior official of the European executive body stated.
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| Misirkov |
Barem sme na cisto i shodno kje bideme 100% so Amerika, i vo prodolzetok so Rusija i/ili Kina. Za vlez vo EU nema da ja obezmakedoncuvame Makedonija. Neka vidat sto e klin vo stomak. |
| Pina |
quote:
Originally posted by Misirkov
Barem sme na cisto i shodno kje bideme 100% so Amerika, i vo prodolzetok so Rusija i/ili Kina. Za vlez vo EU nema da ja obezmakedoncuvame Makedonija. Neka vidat sto e klin vo stomak.
A jas mislam deka nie sme 100% pod KONTROLA na Amerika, a
ne SO Amerika. A mozhnoto chlenstvoto na Makedonija vo EU, ama ich ne zavisi od toa dali Makedonija ispolnuva nekakvi si uslovi, ili ova ili ona mumbo jumbo. Makedoniaja, vo ovoj vek veke kako "samostojna" drzhava, si e ona shto si beshe: "Moneta za Potkusuruvanje".
I EU ne e veke ona shto beshe, poveke lichi na vrekja rogovi, a ovaa poslednava sitna boranija shto se prikluchi kon Unijata, pa sakaat i Turcija da ja piknat. Chekaj ushte malku pa Izrael ke go vidish vo EU.
Moe lichno mislenje e deka EU nema da odi dolgo vakva kakva shto e.
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| Misirkov |
Mnogu me interesira zosto mislis deka nema da opstane EU?
Spored mene kje opstane no so odredeni poteskotii. EU e neverojatno glomazna tvorba, nesto kako OON. Ne znam dali nekoj tuka videl kako odlucuvaat -- tamu ne se znae koj pie koj plakja, edno soopstenie MORA da e iskucano na ne znam kolku jazika, i mora da se postigne konsenzus vo se. So dr. zborovi nema "gazda" da presece, t.e. ima "kolektivno pretsedatelstvo" kako vo poranesna YU.
Plus vo osnova im e ideologijata na statizmot sto ne im dava ekoonomska vitalnost na dolgi stazi. Natalitetot e vo neverojatno opadjanje i za da go odrzat standardod, MORA da uvezuvaat luge od tretiot svet (dobar del muslimani)so sto politicki se potkopuvaat. Sakaat da go amortiziraat ovoj pad so sitnata buranija od istocna Evropa, koja pak se raduva deka kje kjari nesto.
No EU e vo golema ekonomska kriza, ne se znae sto kje bide koga kje zaribaat glavnite ekonomski motori kako Germanija i Francija kaj koi sega ima golemi poteskotii. Evroto ja apsorbira amerikanskata ekonomska kriza, dolarot kje zajakne po izborite vo noemvri, a prirodnite resursi se uste se osvojuvaat od Amerika. Samo so turizam EU ne moze da parira na Azija i Amerika, koi pak bajgi ja usporija vo ekonomskiot razvoj so problemite na Balkanot.
Mozebi gresam, no ne mi lici deka e "najvnosna" investicija da se nadeva covek na EU.
P.S. Izrael vo EU, HAHAHA! Evreite ne se maloumni da si igraat so sudbinata. |
| Rodney |
Hey...the EU is the way for all the Eastern European states to go...for good or bad that is the truth.
We should not look at the EU as some kind of Wealthy Club, where once in you become rich...The truth alas is not that pink...
No matter how hard all of you are tring to diminish Eu's economic potential you cannot actually disregard that,of course, with many negative sides the EU enforces twice as many positive effects.
Before you actually enter the EU you have got to go tru so serious law reforms - create and change laws and most importantly implement them.I am not saying one could not make this reforms alone, without actually desiring to enter the EU, but then again most ppl will be asking - Where are we actually going?What is our aim? - Prosperity of course, but still prosperity is not easy to reach if you are alone on the track esp. with no near time success strories..ppl want "action" they wanna see that their lives go somewhere...you cannot sustain ppl's hunger for success stories with bland annual statistics -This year the prices went down, this went up...They just cannot feel if it gose up or down with 2-3%...so at the end ppl get tired and seek change...Ask for a new cabinet and stuff...
Ok I went out of track here...:)...my point is that although not perfect the EU is the target a country like Macedonia /and Bulgaria of course/ should be aiming for...the entrance date is not a big deal...if it's 2007 or 2014 there is not big of a deal once the reforms are on track...
The most important thing about the EU that seams to be of a greatest importance is the fact that once a member of the EU you become an investment's paradise...NO sound finacial analysist will say that an investment in a EU member is somehow extremely risky...
The other less important effect is that you ,as a poorer member state, receive some money - for Bulgaria something like 4,5 billion for 3 years, or something like that ...HOWEVER, this sum of muny, tho quite big, should and could not be the sole reason for a coultry to aim for an EU integration...the other positive effects like investment climate boost up and fin security are a lot more important...not to mention the borderless regime...
P.S. As for Turkey...for good or bad this is a really though stuff for you...you better pray for turkey to become an active candidate for accession coz this could affect you too..If they cut Turkey this time again /which is very likely with france actively against/ the EU will most probably reconsider it's enlergement strategy...you know...leave few other countries out of the EU for a while to make company to Turkey during it's waiting...However, this should not stop you from working for you accession...the sole working for the accession is like a good plan for economic development, so any country...no matter whether it is aspiring to enter the EU or not could keep up this plan and succeed... |
| Macedonian-28 |
50 milionskata Ukraina e onaa zemja od poranesniot sovetski sojuz osven baltickite drzavi, koja vo minatoto najpoveke sakase da se ucleni vo EU. So prosiruvanjeto na EU, Ukraina dobi zaednicka granica so EU.
Sega Ukraina poveke ne pokazuva osoben interes za uclenuvanje kon EU i izgleda poveke se priblizuva kon Rusija. Na edna sredba na Jalta pomegu rus. prets. Putin i ukr. prets. Leonid Kucma, objaveno e deka Kucma ke vrsi promeni vo tockite i stratgijata za odbranata na zemjata.
Dosega tocki bea deka EU i NATO se garancija za stabilnosta i stabilitetot vo Evropa i deka Ukraina stremi da se ucleni vo EU. Ova sega e promeneto i sega stoi deka stabilnosta na zemjata zavisi od silni odnosi pomegu zemjite.
Vo praksa znaci toa deka odnosite na Ukraina kon EU se oslabeni, a kon Rusija zajaknati. Ruskiot pretsedatel Putin stremi kon ekonomska unija pomegu Rusija, Belorusija, Kazahstan i Ukraina.
http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=449196
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| Misirkov |
Hey...the EU is the way for all the Eastern European states to go...for good or bad that is the truth
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Ne znam dali e dobro za istocna Evropa da odi so EU ako e "for bad"! No imaat li drug izbor?
Ubavo kje bese da bevme pod zastitniot cador na EU 1987, 88,89 ili 1990 godina. Analogijata e slicna kako koga eden covek vleguva da raboti za edna kompanija: dali e na pocetokot, pa negovata kariera "raste" so rastot na kompanijata, ili e na sredinata, na platoto, kade sto moznostite se pomali, ili pak na krajot?
Na pocetokot se ofajdija Spanija, potoa Portugalija, potoa Grcija. Grcite cutat ne od "investicii" tuku od DOTACII. So dotacii, kolku i da se primamlivi, nema DOLGOROCNA idnina, sustainable growth. Uste nekoj od istocna Evropa kjari, pretezno Ceska, no i toa e specificno zaradi germanskoto prisustvo i investicii. Znaci se drugo e osudeno na teska, zaednicka borba za zacuvuvanje na status quoto protiv drugite dva mokjni bloka vo svetot -- Amerika i Azija -- kaj koi nema "socijalizam" tuku bezmilosna konkurencija so bilo kakvi sredstva.
Eve eden primer: EU do pred 2 neceli nedeli PO CENA NA VOJNA ne dozvoluvase genetski modificirani zitarici od SAD. Dotogas gi dotirase svoite prizvoditeli i duri im plakjase da ne prizveeduvaat. SAD se svrtija kon svojot blok (Kanada i Juzna Amerika). No koga EU gi uvide zagubite od tehnolioski superiorni i evtini zitarici, ekspresno donese odluka za voveduvanje na amerikanski zitarici "samo za dobitocna ishrana" (vo prevod kje primat se). Vakvo odlucuvanje vo moment se slucuva za site pogolemi (ekonomski) prasanja so cela duzina "porazi". Plus ova so Evroto, im ja plaka majkata. Pa slobodno prasajte ekonomisti vo "najjakite" zemji na Evropa, eve Svedska ili Germanija za nivnite prognozi da vidite na koe deredze se. Ne slucajno "neutralna" Svajcarija najmnogu izvezuva rabotni mesta, tehnologija i investicii vo SAD.
Rabotata e sto ako EU malku digne glava, togas i se slucuva "zabavuvanje" vo ekonomskiot rast preku mehanizam Balkan, idealen za spletki od sekakov vid, poslusni i korumpirani luge, da ne naborojuvam ponatamu. Zatoa SAD imaat 100% kontrola. Ama toa ne e ekskuzivno za SAD; EU im vrakjase milo za drago na bliskiot istok i vo Kanada, delumo vo Latinska Amerika (Kuba, Venecuela), vklucuvajkji go Irak kade sto evropskite kompanii redovno gi krsea sankciite za neverojatni profiti i za nafta razbira se.
No sepak najgolemata bolka na e EU e natalitetot: povekjeto zemji vo Evropa imaat negativen prirast na naselenie. Amerika sekogas moze da uveze luge, Azija ima luge za izvoz. Sto povekje se tegne problemot, toa potesko e da se vrati na staroto, a kamo li da se popravi. Za da go zacuvaat standardot na starata populacija koja e pobrojna, MORA da uvezuvaat luge. Toa se ili "muslimani" ili pak nasive Poljaci, Slovaci, Bugari, Rumunci, Ukrainci itn. Prvite se na pretek, vrotite ne se, pa nivnoto otsustvo pravi dodaten haos vo depopulacijata na svoite zemji. Znaci pak faktor Balkan.
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| Rodney |
Ne se soglasubvam i so dvamzata...
First, Ukraina is not exactly the example we have to go with.It is not the Ukranian ppl that are against the EU...it's the President who is a dictator-like persona and the Eu is constantly warning he...It's also quite understandable that some of the Ukranian ppl will be daydreaming for the past days when they lived "better"/tho in reality there country was agonizing in depths/.
Also I don't think that the EU uses the new member states as a kind of immigrant power...If they wanted to do so they could have simply invented a greencard-like lottery for Eastern Europeans and take them in..but no they decided to pay billions for institutional reformation and donations...What is a clear sign that the EU 's main idea behind the enlargement is not the workforce is the tight regime that is gonna be practiced against the new member states...Ppl from the new states will not be able to work freely in any of the old member states for like 4-5 after their entrace...
The EU is definitely beneficial...you should look at it as a reward for well done job - years of reforms and negotiations - and not like as a prerequisite for reforms and growth...Do your job, work hard enough and you will be there...It's a kind of mith that the EU's entrance is based only up to being good and submissive...(well NATO is easier to get in, if the they need you...)it takes lots of time and ambition...EU is not NATO/an organisation that brings to countries like Bulgaria only better image - thus more investments - coz there are really no neighboring states to attack on us...but hey some extra security is always welcomed:) / |
| AntrAx |
quote:
Originally posted by Misirkov
Mnogu me interesira zosto mislis deka nema da opstane EU?
Spored mene kje opstane no so odredeni poteskotii. EU e neverojatno glomazna tvorba, nesto kako OON. Ne znam dali nekoj tuka videl kako odlucuvaat -- tamu ne se znae koj pie koj plakja, edno soopstenie MORA da e iskucano na ne znam kolku jazika, i mora da se postigne konsenzus vo se. So dr. zborovi nema "gazda" da presece, t.e. ima "kolektivno pretsedatelstvo" kako vo poranesna YU.
Plus vo osnova im e ideologijata na statizmot sto ne im dava ekoonomska vitalnost na dolgi stazi. Natalitetot e vo neverojatno opadjanje i za da go odrzat standardod, MORA da uvezuvaat luge od tretiot svet (dobar del muslimani)so sto politicki se potkopuvaat. Sakaat da go amortiziraat ovoj pad so sitnata buranija od istocna Evropa, koja pak se raduva deka kje kjari nesto.
No EU e vo golema ekonomska kriza, ne se znae sto kje bide koga kje zaribaat glavnite ekonomski motori kako Germanija i Francija kaj koi sega ima golemi poteskotii. Evroto ja apsorbira amerikanskata ekonomska kriza, dolarot kje zajakne po izborite vo noemvri, a prirodnite resursi se uste se osvojuvaat od Amerika. Samo so turizam EU ne moze da parira na Azija i Amerika, koi pak bajgi ja usporija vo ekonomskiot razvoj so problemite na Balkanot.
Mozebi gresam, no ne mi lici deka e "najvnosna" investicija da se nadeva covek na EU.
P.S. Izrael vo EU, HAHAHA! Evreite ne se maloumni da si igraat so sudbinata.
Не се замарајте со политика, државата ќе ја изгубиме во 2007.
п.с.Нострадамус ми кажа така. |
| Misirkov |
"...The EU is definitely beneficial...you should look at it as a reward for well done job - years of reforms and negotiations - and not like as a prerequisite for reforms and growth.....there are really no neighboring states to attack on us...but hey some extra security is always welcome"
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Pa toa i go kazuvam. The EU is beneficial TO YOU, mostly for the subsidies you had mentioned, in order to get you out of the slump, and temporarily at that, just in the same way they did with Greece (provided it doesnot go bankrupt after the Olympics). Greece has no industry save for tourism and is dependent on the EU.
But the question is: ARE YOU BENEFICIAL TO THE EU and why? Perhaps if the EU gets you out of the hole, it wil lessen America's (and Asia's) ability to use the Balkans against the EU i.e. to slow her economy down.
But it appears the price for the EU is very high. In fact the EU has the 1989 USSR dilemma as to what to do. And that is why we are having this discussion: can the EU sustain "helping" basket cases like Bulgaria and Rumania (Macedonia included) or is it just too costly? If it continues, can the EU survive having all the social, political and economic problems I had mantioned? If it does not, how will EU's competitors react in those coutries?
It appears the EU has made the decision to leave the "western Balkans" alone. And that will likely precipitate her end.
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| Rodney |
:) don't be that extreme...Take us out of the slump?...really the donation a country receive are NOT that big..we talk for like 4 billion for 3 years/and Bulgaria managed to negotiate the best donations possible, and will be getting more than any of the new members / that makes around 1 billion a year...and to be honest 1 billion is great and could be used for lots of thing,but are not enought to turn Bulgaria in Germany in 5 years or so...it's the other things that come with the membership that are important...This year Bulgaria will have like 2 billion $ income from foreign investments and 2 billion $ from tourism...so in the long run a billin a year tho very beneficial is not going to hugly help Bulgaria in it's development...
As for greece...hm they payed for their greed last summer when 40% of their tourists came to BG or Turkey, but they did not lower the prices...now this year with most than 50% goint to Bulgaria or Turkey I wonder if they continue to be that stupid and still sell a cup of coffee for 4 euros...And to be honest Bulgaria has in some sense better resorts than Greece...the water is not that salty which is a big problem if you have not gotten used to prior to your first visit...temeratures are around 30 C and not like 40+....some of the best natural beaches on the Balkans...no dangerous sea animals...many historical spots to visit like Nessebar,Sozopol,Varna,Balchik...brand new infrastructure..etc...
However, greece will be OK... they still continue to be the most economically developed Balkan state...and if the EU has given money to Greece in the past it is certainly NOT Greece's problem...any country would have taken them...:) And I don't think greece is gonna bankrupt during the summer olipmics...providing that Bin Ladin does not show up:)///
You ask if we are beneficial to the EU?Well of course:)///with the new states the EU markets enlarges that means more sells for the producers of goods truout the EU...that's why evrybody wants to get sure that the economy of the new member state will be able to sustain the competition of the other countries...and you know mo consumption mo money...:) but on the long run this is good for both sides providing that the country is economically able to maintain it's producers... |
| dejan |
Nesto novo http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1433_A_1280332_1_A,00.html
Videte kako Germancite ja pisuvat Makedonija:)))))))))
I ova, ama slicno, http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/web/news_page.asp?nid=3491 |
| Rodney |
Dejane This is just talky talk by ppl that don't have the power and don't take the decisions in the Eu...It is not important what they say but what the EU says...As I said whether it will be 2014 or 2016 Macedonia will most probably join the EU...just do your job and it will come on it's own...
P.S. Macedonia CAN NOT join the EU before 2012...so any date after 2012 is possible but berore NO...
After BG and RO in 2007...Croatia will join in 2009-2010. |