| The famous Goce's "quote" |
| tim |
quote:
Makedonija ima svoi interesi i svoja politika. Koj raboti na prisoedinjavane na Makedonija kon Grcija, Bugarija i Srbija, moze da bide dobar Grk, Bugarin ili Srbin, no nikogas ne moze da bide dobar Makedonec.
Do you know where these words are taken from? Are these words really said by Goce Delchev? Is this quota accurate? And how does this quote continue?
THE ANSWER:
The quote is taken from a well known book called Ilinden (1930) by Dimitar Talev (1.09.1898, Prilep - 20.10.1966, Sofia). He is an eminent writer in Bulgaria. The dialogs in the books are invention of the writer and not documentary words of the characters. Maybe some of you have heard of Talev but I doubt anyone has read something by him. After all according to him Macedonians Slavs are Bulgarians and this is depicted in Ilinden, Prespanskite kambani and all his books about Macedonia.
THE EXACT QUOTE AND SOMETHING MORE OF IT
quote:
Makedonija ima svoi interesi i svoja politika kojto raboti da ja prisaedini kam Balgaria ili Garcija (no Serbia here), toj moze da se misli za dobar balgarin ili dobar grak, no ne i dobar makedonec. Takav balgarin ili grak poddarza vechen razdor mezdu balkanskite narodi, koito trjabva da zivejat v bratska druzba, za da badat po-shtastlivi. Makedonija prinadlezi na vsichki makedonci, bez razlika na religii, nacii i ezici
As you can see All Macedonians means Bulgarians and Greeks (and other nationalities) from Macedonia and not separate nationality! The same with "Macedonia for the Macedonians" |
| OooOo |
no dude, #1084 should be #1055 |
| tim |
I corrected it |
| Ceki |
And so ... What else you expected from bulgarian, or macedonian that sold his soul? You bulgarians are known for your falsifications and stuffs like that.
quote:
As you can see All Macedonians means Bulgarians and Greeks (and other nationalities) from Macedonia and not separate nationality! The same with "Macedonia for the Macedonians"
If you think this is ultimate proof, well you are wrong[;)] And btw sources many times talk about Macedonian nation aswel.
This is just a biased book from that time, with as you said fictional dialogs and who knows what else. I think historians should not take it as historical source. Maybe just to proove, what all bulgars were doing to erase Macedonian nation and identity.
Some science fiction reading ... |
| tim |
Yes, this is not historical book. But YOU are the one who use quotes (not accurate and misleading by the way! ) from that book, presenting them as words said by Goce!
This is not your first time of quoting out of context just to manipulate the reader!
As you quote it, it seams that Macedonian is a separate nationality.
But when you read the whole quote and the whole book you can get what is really the meaning.
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| Strelec |
quote:
Originally posted by tim
...As you quote it, it seams that Macedonian is a separate nationality.
tim, it seams that we'll have to send you to summer school, and if you pass, you'll be able to continue! OR ELSE!
So, be carefull in the future!
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| tim |
Strelec, why are you pissed off? I am talking about a meaning of a quote! I am not discussing in general the meaning of Macedonian! The quote (the whole quote and not only part of it) and the book (if you bother to read it) are perfectly clear. You manipulate words as it suits you. |
| Strelec |
quote:
Originally posted by tim
...I am not discussing in general the meaning of Macedonian!
The problem is not in the topic which you opened, but in the sentence which in my last post I have quoted!
Look at the bolded part in my previous post!
And stop acting that you didn't understand me!
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| tim |
Whats the problem with my sentence? It regards Coces guote and the way YOU, Macedonians, use this quote (part of it) to MANIPULATE the reader.
quote:
As you quote it, it seams that Macedonian is a separate nationality.
Yes, you use this quote (part of it and out of context) as a proof that Macedonian is a separate nationality and that Goce is Macedonian by nationality!
But according to the whole quote (and the book) this is not the case. According to the whole quote Macedonians means Bulgarians and Greeks (and other nationalities) from Macedonia. Simple as that.
|
| Ceki |
And Goce is of what nationality according to you?
Prasanje za da vidime ako ke pominit ova godina:) |
| tim |
According to this quote he is not Macedonian by nationality. But as this quote is NOT a real document we rule it out. Then comes the famous Goces letter to Nikola Maleshevski where he writes himself as we are Bulgarians.
That should answer your question.
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| Strelec |
tim, thanks for being a part of this forum...
and don't come back!
|
| Ceki |
I dont even want to comment this kind of stupid stuffs, look, that letter is 100% falsification, believe it or not. How many "famous" Samoil stones were found and one by one were admited to be fake. Not to mention recent falsification, the one that bitushanec mentioned. "Makedonska svadba" and "balgarska svadba".
Ok, and here is a part of a letter from Nikola Karev to Goce Delcev. 1902
" Ne trebame da cekame poveke, Goce. Vreme e veke da staneme i da se bieme. Da ne cekame sloboda nitu od Grcite nitu od Bugarite, ami sami nie Makedoncite da se borime za nasa Makedonija, sto ja zasiluva organizacijata megu selanite i da ne se spomenuvat tvrdenjata deka "site Makedonci rabotele za prisoedinuvanjeto na Makedonija kon Bugarija ili Grcija". " |
| bitushanec |
THE LAST WILL OF COGE DELCHEV IS HIS REMAINS TO BE BARIED IN THE CAPITAL OF FREE INDEPENDANT MACEDONIAN STATE. THEREFORE, HE IS BARRIED NOW IN SKOPJE. BETTER PROVE FROM THIS YOU DO NOT NEED. IF GOCE WAS BULGAR, WHY WOULD HE FOUGHT FOR AN INDEPENDANT MACEDONIA? ARE YOU SO STUPID THAT YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND SIMPLE LOGIC THINGS? |
| Misirkov |
Mu smetalo na tataroljubecot zosto nekoj od vas (Thif na primer) go upotrebuvate citatot vo nasoka da se istakne posebna makedonska nacionalnost.
Prvo pretpostavuva deka e zemen od Talev, no ne znae. Mozebi Thief samiot napisal esej i go napisal toj citat?!
Inaku priznava nasevo tataroljupce deka knigata na Telev ne e istoriska (tuku propagandisticka)! Ama toa ne mu smeta da se proiznese "po voprosa" zosto dlaboko vo nego zasegaat Atila i Omurtag, tatarskiot han Nogaj, Gostun i ostanatite vodaci na Bugarite! Sto da pravi pustiot koga tolku mu preci makedonskata nacija!
Ajde pak da probame so eden dokument publikuvan vo Sofija: Imeno, vo zapisnikot na tajnata ruska carska arhiva za ustrojstvoto i upravuvanjeto so balkanskite oblasti, se naodja edna beleska od 1878 godina za grofot Petar Andreevic Shuvalov vo koja pokraj drugoto se veli:
"... Grofot Suvalov moli da se donesat site merki za smiruvanje na Makedonija. Zaradi toa, bi bilo pozelno tamu da se ispratat opitni agenti, da im se objasni na Makedoncite od imeto na Imperatorot, deka Negovoto Velicestvo se grizi za nivnata sudbina ednakvo kako i za drugite Sloveni i deka kje im bide dadena takva ista pomos, kako na BUgarite, sega vekje oslobodeni.....Resavanjeto na makedonskoto prasanje za nas se pokazuva mnogu tesko i izbrzano."
(Dokumenti od sekretni arhivi na ruskoto carsko pravitelstvo, Sofija 1893 godina, str. 11-12). |
| Strelec |
quote:
Originally posted by Strelec
tim, thanks for being a part of this forum...
and don't come back!
, tim1, tim2...
!
|
| SpaceLily |
A toj robotot sho brishit postoj i sho banirat kakva druga funkcija vrshit?[:D] |
| graf |
tim wake up and smell the coffee. ANd go back to school. Macedonia is not full of grrk or Bulgarians, it is full of MACEDONIANS |