| Homer MakeDonski |
Хелени
Mожното значење на зборот ,го анализирам базирајќи се на методата на споредување преку реконструкција -кога се поаѓа од современата состојба ,земајќи во обзир дека дадената појава може да се илустрира и во "несловенска"средина кога се земаат и писмени докази од постарите периоди-доколку ги има,па на таа реконструкција и је дадеме релацијата на регресија или ти случајот кога од современата состојба се враќаме на назад.
Потоа темелејќи се на споменатата метода правиме една етимолошка анализа -споредувајќи ги сличностите и разликите на кои што наидуваме ,се со цел да се стигне до почетната состојба ,поради пронаоѓање на нови и нови значења на еден ист збор ,но и поради
изнаоѓање и на самото потекло на зборот .
Хелени
*Х-*К'С
пр:ѕех-секс ;-)
Хелени
*К'Селени
(К)'Селени
Селени
*е-је-ије-и
Селеније
Селенје
или процес на миграција
каде главни учесници би биле мигрантите
или во случајов
Селеници-те
Потоа налетав на текст даден на нивните сајтови
кој што збори за запишаните податоци оклу значењето на зборот Хелен
Onda sam naleteo na tekst na njiovim sajtovima napisan
Hellens -meaning
by historical sources
http://history.macedonia.gr/faq.htm#9
Although the words Hellas and Hellen (and the other two Englishequivalents Greece and Greek) have been used to describe thecountry and the people of modern day Greece, their use in ancienttimes differed in various periods of time.The usage of these words to describe the various hellenictribes as a whole was unknown to the people of the Homeric poems.In Iliad, the words Hellen (Gk: ELLHN) and Hellas (Gk: ELLAS) de-fined a small greek tribe and the land inhabited by them inThessaly. (Iliad B' 683) "OI T' EIXON FUIHN HD' ELLADA KALLI-GYNAIKA, MYRMIDONES DE KALEYNTO KAI ELLHNES KAIAXAIOI". At some earlier line (B' 530) there is a reference tothe word "PANELLHNVN". This word since the time of Aristarchoshas been considered to be absent in the original poem and was ad-ded at some later time.Plutarchos (Lykourgos 6) wrote about the message brought fromDelphoi to Sparta by Lykourgos " DIOS (S)ELLANIOU KAI AUHNAS(S)ELLANIAS IERON IDRYSAMENON...". Because of this reference, itis believed that the words "Hellas" and "Hellen" became morewidely used after the dispersion of the Dorians. It is also pos-sible that they were sacred words possibly related to the(S)elles priests of the Dodonian Zeus.[the parenthesized (S) is to mean that the S say in the word SEL-LANIOY was later dropped from use thus giving ELLANIOY.]The words Hellas and Hellen became more widely used some time inthe 8-7th century BC and in the 5th century BC we find the firstreferences of them to describe the lands and the Greek peopleliving south of river Peneios. In the 4th century BC and laterthey were also used to describe the various hellenic (greek)tribes as a whole. The passage from Herodotos (I,56), mentionedin a previous Question indicated another use of these words, thatof distinguishing Ionian Greeks from Dorian Greek.Since the Macedonians were pretty much isolated from the Greeksof Southern Greece up to the early 5th century BC, the words'Hellas' and 'Hellen' were not used by them to describe collec-tively the lands of various hellenic tribes, as this was alsotrue for all the other greek tribes until the 8-7th century BC.Hence when the Macedonians initiated contacts with other Greektribes they continued to use the word 'Macedonian' to describethemselves instead of the collective 'Hellen(es)'. This is thereason various authors (such as Isocrates, Philippos 154) use theterm "Hellenes" and "Macedonians" on the one hand and 'barbari-ans" on the other to distinguish the greek tribes (of Macedoni-ans and other Hellenes) from the non-greek ones (barbarians).The intellectual Athenians of the 4th century gave yet anotherdefinition for the word "Hellen" (Isocrates, Panegyrikos 50 ),that of the person having an Athenian educational background,"... the name 'Hellenes' suggests no longer the people but an in-telligence, and that the title 'Hellenes' is applied rather tothose who share our [note: the 'our' refers to the Athenians]culture than to those who share a common blood".
----------------
Some analyses about the text:
1) Homeric poems.I (Gk: ELLHN) and Hellas (Gk: ELLAS) de-fined a small greek tribe and the land inhabited by them inThessaly. (Iliad B' 683) "OI T' EIXON FUIHN HD' ELLADA KALLI-GYNAIKA, MYRMIDONES DE KALEYNTO KAI ELLHNES KAIAXAIOI".
.............
2) The same one : At some earlier line (B' 530) there is a reference tothe word "PANELLHNVN". This word since the time of Aristarchoshas been considered to be absent in the original poem and was ad-ded at some later time.
.........so the word:,,PAN-ELLHNVN''
3) Plutarchos (Lykourgos 6) wrote about the message brought fromDelphoi to Sparta by Lykourgos " DIOS (S)ELLANIOU KAI
...........the word:,,DIOS(S)ELLANIOU KAI
4)"Hellas" and "Hellen" became morewidely used after the dispersion of the Dorians. It is also pos-sible that they were sacred words possibly related to the(S)elles priests of the Dodonian Zeus.[the parenthesized (S) is to mean that the S say in the word SEL-LANIOY was later dropped from use thus giving ELLANIOY.]The words Hellas and Hellen became more widely used so
... so we have :SEL-LANIOY-ELLANIOY
an if we make a comparation with a meaning of :
H -E -LL -E-N-I...
where
H could be a bissonant form of X
*X->K'S
eg: AleX-AleKS ,SeX-SeKS
then this make the word changeable at this way:
и пак ќе се повторам
Хеллени
Х-е-лл-е-н-и
К'С-е-лл-е-н-и
К'С-е-лл-е-н-и
(К)'С-е-лл-е-н-и
С-е-лл-е-н-и
С-е-лл-е-нје
Селлење
|
| Homer MakeDonski |
З Хеллените по текстот на Херодот ,кој што своите пишувања ги базирал
на напишаните текстови од персиските историчари ,кои што го забележуваат населувањето на, како што наведуваат "тие луѓе"(не им се наведува ниту нивното име ).кои што доаѓаат од подрачјето на Еритреја -Сомалија -Африка ,на бреговите на Медитеранот и тоа во времето кога Феникијците почнале меѓусебно да се во кавга .
Еве го почетокот на текстот ,со една моја мала анализа
како што е дадено во преводот направен од George -a Rawlinson
www.galileolibrary.com/eb...page_3.htm
--------------
Who are the Hellens :
by Herodotus
translated by George Rawlinson
The First Book, Entitled
CLIO
THESE are the researches of Herodotus of Halicarnassus, which he
publishes, in the hope of thereby preserving from decay the
remembrance of what men have done, and of preventing the great and
wonderful actions of the Greeks and the Barbarians from losing their
due meed of glory; and withal to put on record what were their grounds
of feuds.
According to the Persians best informed in history, the
Phoenicians began to quarrel. This people, who had formerly dwelt on
the shores of the Erythraean Sea, having migrated to the Mediterranean
and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they
say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the
wares of Egypt and Assyria. They landed at many places on the coast,
and among the rest at Argos, which was then preeminent above all the
states included now under the common name of Hellas. Here they exposed
their merchandise, and traded with the natives for five or six days;
at the end of which time, when almost everything was sold, there
came down to the beach a number of women, and among them the
daughter of the king, who was, they say, agreeing in this with the
Greeks, Io, the child of Inachus. The women were standing by the stern
of the ship intent upon their :
quote:
______________
This people, who had formerly dwelt on
the shores of the Erythraean Sea, having migrated to the Mediterranean
and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they
say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the
wares of Egypt and Assyria. They landed at many places on the coast,
and among the rest at Argos, which was then preeminent above all the
states included now under the common name of Hellas.
---------------------------------
Here at this part I have make a preview and view on this way ;
preview:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This people ,who had formely dwelt on shores of the erythraean Sea ,having migrated to the Mediterranean ....,avantures,voyages..wares of Egipt and Assyria ....They landed at many places on the coast ...now under the commonn name of Hellas .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I had stoped here for a while asking
What exacelly Herodot said?
From the times when the "Phoenicians began to quarrel"-This people had migrated to the Mediterranean Sea ,landed and settled ,(part by part),which than they had inhabited ,and again than under the common name of Hellas.
_________________________________
View:
Firstly situation is that those people, abouth Herodot-us is informing us,been seen,(from the Persians side -according by them ) as native population at the Erythraean Sea,and they had migrated at the Mediterraenean coast.Over there they Landed and Settled the areas ,what areas become knowen as Hellas .
-----------------
Questions I made are this :
-What people have had migrated ?
We do not know ,according to the text it is saying only "This people "
-When they had migrated ?
At the times when Phoenitians were quarrels between themselves .
-Where those people had went ?
At the Mediterraenenean Sea .
Where those people use to live before the migration ?
At the Erythraean Sea,
Where is Erythrea today ?
It is at the same place where always had been .
Subsaharian regions in Africa .
Before the migration of those people at the Balkans as well as the part of the Mediterraenenian sea,their name was
how?
Archeans?
-Herodot-us does saying nothing in this text,above in the next part of the text :
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At a later period, certain Greeks, with whose name they are
unacquainted, but who would probably be Cretans, made a landing at...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cretans ?
probably or very likely ?
-------------
But since those people had Landed and Setle up the area they had got a name as Hellens ,and area were the Hellens had came was named as Hellas.
This are my conclusions:
-About the Greeknes or" Hellenikness " for the past times of the" preancient" world,are finishing with INCOMING of the Hellenistic tribes.
Not before ,but with Incoming of those "some people" -tribes is a beggining of a "Hellenism "
-Term "arriveing of a Hellens" is is not correct at all.
Why?
Simply there is no evidence from no one in the history that Hellens had arrived .All of the evidences are saiying one thing only.
Acheans have had arrived
Dorians have had arrived
Ionians have had arrived
Eolians have had arrived
but
Hellens had NOT been arrived .
Why ?
Simply because ,There is NOT Hellenistic motherland ,from where Hellens had come at the Balkan peninsula.
There in NOT Hellenistic Language,no body speack about it .Instead ,they were dialects only.
There is NOT Hellenistic anything before the tribes had arrived at Balkan peninsula.
After the tribes had arrived ,than we could ask ourselfs
Who are the Hellens ?
I will be confedent to give a deffinition of " nultta period "for that arriving time.what is wronge as well because we have different tribes arriving in different periods i.e.one by one
Than we could say :From the different triebes what had come at different times from different place on the globus ,we have a amount of different people with a different" national" names or different tribe names who had put foreworth their nucleus separated one of each other leaving in different pollisis -city states ....
who were named as a HELLENS from the native Balkan population .
Hellens were mix of different tribes who had start to build up their owen life at the foundations of the previous civilisation what been destroyed while ago . |
| Homer MakeDonski |
ela-dojdi
"perhaps "Hellas" has to do with the sun. "
-perhaps has to do ,but where is the Sun even as a symbol in todays Greek culture
-perheps Hellas has to do with the Sun ,but maybe that is more likely something to do with non Hellenic ppl
We can read word MIGRATION because it is the verb "move"appiaring here .In my language SELI is MOVE ,SELJENJE is MIGRATION.Also a question WHY that word ? LET's put the thinks on this way.I'd move from my country in U.K. ,and English people are eye witnesses of my immigration on their soil.English language is my witness as well becouse English people as civilizated people has registrated me like that,like immigrant.May something simmilar had happened one's up one time back in my country spaces ,where were one people were leaving already there ,at the times when some tribbes have had arrived ,so called "HELLENS"
Knowing that Hellene is with meaning Shine and Hellens as Shining people
and knowing that one word have more then one meaning
I am grounding meaning of the word Hellens as standing for Migrants or Immigrands because of this word's with the same rooth's in my Macedonian language :
As for the Hellens~migrants in my language we have a werb like
K/SELLO
' /SELLO -village (Polises , )
' SEL -
*L->*O (palatalisation )
'/ SEL
SEO -(SEDNAL) -v. to sit;to live ;to stay
*SEL-SSEL-ZSEL-ZASEL :-ZA SEDNAL
maybe from that werb we have got the word ZA SEDNAL what could stand for to :sit to stay ,to live
but we do have the word Ela for come or come here
and more of it and in the language of the Greeks it is the same word
with the same meaning
Ella -come or come here . |