| ABOUT MACEDONIAN TSAR SAMUIL | |
| bitushanec | LET US CLEAR SOMETHING ABOUT TSAR SAMOIL AND SOME INSCTIPRIONS ABOUT HIM: Term Âïíëãáï or plural VoUlgaroi is used by SOME Byzant sources for the citizens of SAMOIL Empire. Voulgar est classificatio populi (et plebis) means "lower class" people. Its not a term that desctipts Volgars (BOLGARS) Tatar people with origin from Volga region that formed present Bulgaria; in greek VOLGAR is written Âïëãáñ = Volgar. Afterwards the term VoUlgaroi had been twisted and used for the Slavic people. Not only for Macedonians, but also for the Serbs, Montenegrians, Croats and Bosnians the term VoUlgaroi had been used in some Byzant Chronicles. Not to forget that Tsar Samuil Army was consisting of soldiers not only from Macedonia but also from Serbia, Dalmatia, Montenegro, Bulgaria and Bosnia. So, are all these people Bulgars? NOT TO FORGET THAT BASSIL II VOULGAROSLAYER WAS NAMED AS VOULGAROSLAYER FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ONE POEM FROM 14 CENT, BUT NOT DURING HIS LIFE! Just SOME Byzant sources that might be falsificated state that Samoil was Voulgar...But let us mention that many historians speak for people of Macedonia as MACEDONIANS in medieval time. Constantinus VII Porfirogenes in his book "De thematibus" says that thema Strymion (Struma region along Strumica and Pirin Macedonia) is settled by Macedonians but ruled by Scytians. Ivan Kiriotes – Geometres who was a was biscop of Melitena in X Cent. describes the citizenes of Samloil Kingdom as Macedonians, Moesians, Scytians and Bulgars. Byzant Historian Muchael Psel in 11 Cent in his book no. 6 writes that Macedonian Leo from Family TORNIK wanted to wipe off from the tron the Roman Eperor Constantine (1042-1055). Furthermore Psel states that Macedonians are very fond of dancing and songs (as its case and now). SOMEBODY LIKE "GRKs" THAT HAVE NOTHING GRK IN THEM BUT ETHYOP-TURKISH AND THRACIANS THAT CALL THEMSELVES "BULGARS" AS ORIGINAL BULGARS ARE PRESENT TURKS IN BULGARIA ARE TWISTING THIS FACT. HOW THE GREEK OFFICIAL HISTORIANTS CAN EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT THERE ARE TWO PRIME MINISTERS IN GREEK HISTORY WITH SURNAME VOULGARIS. ARE THEY ARE BULGARIANS? OR JUST THEIR FAMILIES WERE COMMON PEOPLE OR SLAVIC? Dimitrious Voulgaris was a Greek Prime-Minister 5 times at 1866-1875 and Petros Vulgaris was Prime-Minister of Greek Goverment in 1945. The famous jewelry family BVLGARI are greeks from Crete and have nothing to do with Bulgaria or Bulgars. Furthermore, the Empire of Tsar Samoil was MACEDONIAN and the prove is that Tsar Dushan was proclaimed as MACEDONIAN TSAR STEPHAN DUSHAN and APSOLUTE RULER SERBIAN, BULGARIAN, VALLACHIAN, HUNGARIAN ETC...In the past to be proclaimed for a Tsar you have to take the Crown of some former Empire on that territory and therefore the TSAR DUSHAN proclaimed for Macedonian Tsar as he took the crown of Tsar Samouil. Just see the Serbian, Bulgarian and Croatian Transcripts of Dushan Code and all of them starts with the same: "The Law of the faithful Tsar Dushan, in the year 6857 of the 2nd Indict, on the Lord's Ascencion Day, in month of May, the 21st day" etc etc countinues: "(Code of) the honorable and Christ-loving Macedonian Tsar Stefan, Serbian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Dalmation, Arbanasian, Hungarian Wallachian and indipendent ruler of many other regions and lands... Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949). 2. RAVENICA (Serbia) TRANSCRIPT OF DUCHAN CODE 3. ZAGREB (Croatia)TRANSCRIPT OF DUCHAN CODE 4. SOFIA (Bulgaria) TRANSCRIPT OF DUCHAN CODE Dushan was not Macedonian, he was Serbian from Njemanjich Dinasty but in order to proclame himself for Tsar on his Country he needed to take title MACEDONIAN TSAR. Even Tsar Dushan made Macedonian Town Skopje - Capital: Stefan became king of the Tribals. After he had set off from the region of the Ionian Sea, he razed Epidamnus to the ground, went into Macedonia and made Skopje the capital... Laonici Chalcocondiae Historiarum. Ed. J. P. Migne - PG t.CLIX (Paris, 1866) col. 36, B-37, C. Furthermore, Dushan Coats of Arms is included Macedonian Coat of Arm, Byzant Coat of Arms and Serbian and that its presented at many Churches that Dushan had builted. So,and Tsar Samoil had to take Bulgarian Crown but we has not Bulgar....If SAMUIL WAS BULGARIAN, was DUSHAN MACEDONIAN THAN? |
| angomako | zdravo bitusanec, brat,a be mnogu ubavi natpisi... ova so car dusan i samuil i voulgarite e stvarno interesno... i posebno citatite od srednovekovnite vizantiski istoricari. interesno! dali znaes koj ja napisal taa poema voulgaroslayer vo 14vek? pozdrav, ango |
| noname | quote: |
| bitushanec | BOULGAR written in Greek its pronauncing VOULGAR, as in greek language "B" its read as "V". BOULGAR = VOULGAR BARBAR = VARVAR etc BASSILEOS = VASILLEOS etc... DUSHAV WAS PROCLAIMED FOR MACEDONIAN, NOT FOR BULGARIAN TSAR, SO NO BULGAR CROWN WAS PASSED ON TO DUSHAN! |
| noname | quote:But then again it comes that the Greeks write down just PROPERLY the name of the Bulgarians and Boulgaroi in GREEK means exactly Bulgarians and nothing else? On the other hand the problems of Greek PRONUNCIATION are entirely Greek problems and are definitely of no concern herewith...... As for the Dushan's crown - let's repeat once again - if Samuil's crown was the Bulgarian one (as YOU clearly STATED yourself) and Dushan DID take Samuil's crown (as YOU clearly STATED yourself) then what crown exactly did Dushan in fact acquire?? |
| Gjoko | quote:Dobra i tipicna bugarska logika od nedefiniraniot"noname": toj shto laze i krade toj shto krade i ubiva znaci toj sto laze i ubiva bravo |
| bitushanec | VOLGAR is a Greek temr for Bulgarians..... At present Greeks language, VOULGARIA MEANS LAND OF PROSTACI (SLOVENI) boors, rough necks simples, simpletons yokels ITS A PROBLEM OF PRESENT BULGARIANS WHO THINK THAT GREECE CALL THEM "BULGARIANS",ACTUALLY GREECE CALLS THEM BOORS (PROSTACI)! LOOK HOW THE GREEKS ARE TRANSLATING VOULGAR NOW: "When the great war comes, Macedonia will become Greek or Bulgarian according to who wins. If it is taken by the Bulgarians they will make the population Slavs. If we take it, we will make Macedonians all Greeks." Harilaos Trikoupis (Greek prime minister 1882 - 1895), (Soruce: History of the Greek People, Volume 14, page 18, Athens Publishing House). "Bulgarians they will make the population Slavs"....Slavs have been written as Voulgaroi, but the official Greece translate it like SLAVS. |
| bitushanec | WE CAN SEE THAT TSAR SAMOIL WAS MACEDONIAN BECAUSE IN THAT TIME HIS KINGDON WAS NAMED AS MACEDONIA : One of the greatest scholars of the 12th century Arab world was Al-Idrisi, whose Geography is chiefly the result of his many travels. Therein, he identifies Macedonia as encompassing even regions along the Danube River from Belgrade in the west to Shumen in the east. "As far as the country of Macedonia is concerned, it includes the towns Naissus (Nish), Atrubi (Pirot), Kukastru (Kladovo), Biduni (Vidin), Aphranisura (Branichevo), Agrisinus (Razgrad) and Masiunus (Shumen)." Al-Idrisi also mentions several rivers in Macedonia: the Voyussa, Devol, Drin, Vardar, Morava and Nishava, while the Strymon Rivor is referred to as the Marmara. The satirical Tymarion was written by an unknown author in the world of Albert of Aachen, Zvonara and Al-Idrizi-the middle of the 12th century. |
| noname | quote: |
| noname | quote:"...WE CAN SEE THAT TSAR SAMOIL WAS MACEDONIAN BECAUSE IN THAT TIME HIS KINGDON WAS NAMED AS MACEDONIA : One of the greatest scholars of the 12th century Arab world .." Well, even if we bypass your excuisite conclusion relating the ".. IN THAT TIME..." with ".....the 12th century Arab..." it is interesting to know what has had the geography of the 12th century Moesia in common with the first Bulgarian statehood POLITICAL issues? |
| bitushanec | NONAME you are completely confused. I told you hundereds of times that term ¦¢¦Ï¦Í¦Ë¦Ã¦Á¦Ñ is used for all people at the Balcan even for the non-slavic Albanians and Vlachs! Are the all people from the Balcan Penincyla BULGARIANS? Its evident that you want to prove something that could not be proven. Or you are the same like Bozhidar Dimitrov, the Facist Director of Bulgarian National Museum says: ALL SOUTH SLAVIC PEOPLE ARE BULGARIANS SINCE IN THE MEDIEVAL TIMES ALL WERE CALLED BULGARIANS! SEE THE INSCRIPTIONS FOR SAMUIL MADE IN 11 CEVR: IT DOES NOT WRITE EVEN VOULGAR IT WRITES "VOGLTAROI".... presentation ¦Á ¦Â¦Æ ¦Ç ¦È ¦É ¦Ê ¦Ë ¦Ì Latin Equivalent a b g d e z ¨¨ th ¦Ã ¦Ä ¦Å i k l m HTML presentation ¦Í ¦Î ¦Ï ¦Ð ¦Ñ ¦Ò ¦Ó ¦Ô ¦Õ ¦Ö ¦× ¦Ø Latin Equivalent n ks o p r s t u ph ch ps oo |
| bitushanec | Minijatura „Vojskite na car Samoil po opsadata na gradot Solun go ubivaat negoviot upravitel Grigorij Taronit“. Hronika na Jovan Skilica - Jovan Kedrin, XII - XIII vek (Nacionalna biblioteka - Madrid) I TAMU NE PISHUVA BUGARI TUKU KOJZNAE SHTO (VOGLTARI) GOLTARI? http://www.soros.org.mk/archive/G02/sm0905.htm VO DRUGI PAK HRONIKI NISHTO NE PISHUVA : http://www.soros.org.mk/archive/G02/sm0906.htm http://faq.macedonia.org/images/samoil.madrid.2.jpg |
| Batbayan | Bitushanec, you need to read some history... facts read the facts.
quote:You are wrong. It is true that some historians believe that his nickname of 'Bulgar-slayer' was not popular while he was still living. Those historians that believe so say that this nickname comes up in the writtings about 80 years after the battle of Kleidon. The facts are written and are well known to those who read and analyze all sides of history. The fact being here is that there is no such thing as Basil II the Macedon-slayer, it is only a dream of yours. However, there are countless written records that call Tsar Samuil a Bulgar, call his people Bulgarian, the people of Ohrid and the sourrounding area's are also called Bulgarian, the empire that Samuil was Tsar of is also recorded as Bulgarian. I have some advice for you and all of your 'Macedonian' friends. Go and find a historical atlas. Open the atlas of Europe and follow the progress of the balkan states. You will see that before 1944 the name Macedonia only exists as a name of a region and nothing else. |
| Batbayan | Actually, forget about what I said about analyzing all sides of history. It will be hard for you to do so even if you wanted to. Misirkov recentetly deleted a post which contained facts of the land of Macedonia and described what the Serb murderes were doing at the time to the population of the land. So obviously it will be very difficult for you to look at all the facts and create your own personal opinion... all becasue of people like Misirkov. They are depriving you of your own history. I am sure that they will not be able to delete the maps and atlases. Go and follow the process of the balkans for the past 2000 years. If you don't have time to read the details just sit back and enjoy the vivid maps of south-eastern Europe. |
| blue sky | how can you prove this info? [img][/img] |
| noname | quote: |
| noname | [quote]Originally posted by bitushanec
Minijatura „Vojskite na car Samoil po opsadata na gradot Solun go ubivaat negoviot upravitel Grigorij Taronit“. Hronika na Jovan Skilica - Jovan Kedrin, XII - XIII vek (Nacionalna biblioteka - Madrid) I TAMU NE PISHUVA BUGARI TUKU KOJZNAE SHTO (VOGLTARI) GOLTARI? http://www.soros.org.mk/archive/G02/sm0905.htm Taka pishuva? - "Vogltari" or suchlike? I guess you bother to look at the inscription yourself or you forgot? whatever you say then - no more argument - you win! you can just ALWAYS win with such an "evidence" |
| angomako | Could be these macedonians are Greek speaking roman citizens like the emperor Vasilii II? ------------------------------------------------ the region of struma was pretty much inhabited with slavonic populations at most,i believe.in any case,those macedonians even if they were roman or greek speaking,were did they go? i assume that they mixed with the slavonic population,and on the same term the bulgarians are conducting the right to call the selves bulgars,on the basis of a bogus number of several thousand tatars coming from who knows where, i rightfuly close this descusion by saying that there is one of the reasons to use the same premise and call our selves macedonians. after all,there were macedonians living there,and they didn't disapear,the country becomes bisantian again,with macedonian ruler, so they were safe from the blodthirsty slavs who were eating children for breakfast that they had to run to south to greece:) after all,that's one of the interpretations of the greeks. so,there we are... thank you strumica! ango |
| noname | quote:The macedonians in Greece do not mix with slavs today and even do not hesitate to show hostility towards the slav inhabitants. So much for the past. The sources clearly show nothing but hostility between the two peoples. Not only there isn't a sign of mixing recorded in the sources but there are numerous informations about wars and ethnic hostility (even cleansing) throughout the ages until the middle of the 20th century. A typical example of the "mixing" are all the uprisings in the Byzantine ruling over the territory. |
| Misirkov | --------------------------------------------------------------------- The macedonians in Greece do not mix with slavs today and even do not hesitate to show hostility towards the slav inhabitants. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What "slav inhabitants" in Greece? Don't tell me you are trying again to be a Greek stooge in order to "prove" your stupid and infantile theory that the Macedonians are Bulgarian?! Only by playing the greek idiocy as truth (that allegedly the ancient Macedonians are Greek) are they able to assert that Macedonians are descendants of turko-mongol tribes of Central Asia. Tatar dimwit! |
| bitushanec | BUGAR OR VOULGAROS IS is a derogatory slang USED IN THE PAST AND USED CURRENTLY BY THE "GRKS". JUST SEE WHAT WRITES IN THE Greek-language dictionary of Prof. Georgios Babiniotis (1998): second interpretation of the Bulgarian in the Greek Language: abusive and derogative meaning! |
| Christian | abe tele se uci, vol ne se uci. |
| noname | quote:ONCE AGAIN: 1.Why are you afraid to use the PROPER Greek spelling? 2. Why is this "second interpretation", why not the FIRST? |
| angomako | because,just because the second explanation explains you and everybody of why you are bul and i am mako. nations don't become just like that,out of poop. it is a long complicated process,with many variables. |
| Batbayan | quote:Macedonia, as a nation, came up on the map of Europe about 10 years ago. Christian, you are right. Teleto is the one that can be tought. However, I would asume that vola would be reasonable enough to view and acknowledge all the facts and information. |
| Divider | Sorry to barge on on a discussion like this, but I had to reply to Batbayan. Yes, I agree the vol should be reasonable enough to view and acknowledge all the facts and information. So VOLE please acknowledge the facts do not continue your false propaganda and bullshit, OK!! |
| noname | quote:Really? And why then the second and not the FIRST explanation? Can you please explain? If we indulge in ....second explanations - f.i. in Bulgarian "byzantine" means "mean" as a second explanation. The first explanation is something belonging to Byzantium. Your logics however "proves" that the term "Byzantium" comes from the Bulgarin word for "mean". It's a remarkable logics, I definitely agree! |
| Divider | You stupid, stupid, stupid tatar. Are the words "Moses, "Saqqara", "Aztecks", "Incas" aslo derived from bulgarian? Has there ever been a bulgarian language? Has there ever been Bulgaria No!. You are like pests, a virus that is slowly spreading lies as a real virus slosly spreads in a body. There has no known cure for a virus except fire. You shloud all burn. Maybe on a cross even. The language you speak has been the language of the Macedonians living on the shores of the Black Sea. You, as with everything else, in order to create identity, culture, history etc. have stolen it. Now, you're trying to tell us that even the words are in the root derived from "bulgarian"?!! You sorry stupid son of a tataric easy woman! I pitty you and your misslead nation. Should've stayed in the steppes and plains from whense you came fornicating with animals and between yourselves. |
| Divider | Izvadeno od Bukuresskuiot dogovor od 1913 za podelbata na Makedonija: 4. GREECE'S GAIN IN TERRITORY. The boundary line separating Greece from Bulgaria was drawn from the crest of Mount Belashitcha to the mouth of the Mesta River, on the Aegean Sea. This important territorial concession, which Bulgaria resolutely contested, in compliance with the instructions embraced in the notes which Russia and Austria-Hungary presented to the conference, increased the area of Greece from 25,014 to 41,933 square miles and her population from 2,660,000 to 4,363,000. The territory thus annexed included Epirus, southern Macedonia, Salonika, Kavala, and the Aegean littoral as far east as the Mesta River, and restricted the Aegean seaboard of Bulgaria to an inconsiderable extent of 70 miles, extending from the Mesta to the Maritza, and giving access to the Aegean at the inferior port of Dedeagatch. Greece also extended her northwestern frontier to include the great fortress of Janina. In addition, Crete was definitely assigned to Greece and was formally taken over on December 14, 1913. 8. SERBIA'S GAIN IN TERRITORY. The eastern frontier of Serbia was drawn from the summit of Patarika, on the old frontier, and followed the watershed between the Vardar and the Struma Rivers to the Greek-Bulgarian boundary, except that the upper valley of the Strumnitza remained in the possession of Bulgaria. The territory thus obtained embraced central Macedonia, including Ochrida, Monastir, Kossovo, Istib, and Kotchana, and the eastern half of the sanjak of Novi-Bazar. By this arrangement Serbia increased her territory from 18,650 to 33,891 square miles and her population by more than 1,500,000. 5. BULGARIA'S GAIN IN TERRITORY. Bulgaria's share of the spoils, although greatly reduced, was not entirely negligible. Her net gains in territory, which embraced a. portion of Macedonia, including the town of Strumnitza, western Thrace, and 70 miles of the Aegean littoral, were about 9,663 square miles, and her population was increased by 129,490. The fundamental defects of the Treaty of Bucharest were that (1) the boundaries which it drew bore little relation to the nationality of the inhabitants of the districts affected... ...The territory she secured was relatively circumscribed; she had failed to emancipate Macedonia, which was her avowed purpose in entering the war... Comments on the treaty: ...The unity of ethnically homogenous state seen as a guarantee of stability and in whose name the revision of the Balkan map has been proposed, does not constitute a solution for the region. On the contrary, it will let loose all sorts of troubles, as the collapse of the 1913 status quo in combination with the Great Powers’ unwillingness to act will ensnare the region in the worst instability for centuries... ...However, burying their differences for a short time in 1912-13, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria divided Macedonia among themselves during the First Balkan War. Bulgaria's agreed share was reduced by her allies on the grounds that they had conquered the territory while the Bulgarian army was invading neighbouring Thrace. The subsequent Second Balkan War left Bulgaria only with the Struma valley. Vardar Macedonia was incorporated into Serbia and referred to as South Serbia... Mislam deka e dovolno da se kaze deka site onie koi se stremele i seusste se stremat da ni go negiraat identitetot treba da idat i da se gonat u tri lepe... Pozdrav! Makedonija na Makedoncite |
| Divider | The great Athenian statesman Demostenes, spoke of Philip 2nd: "Philip 2nd cannot be a friend of the Greeks. He is not only no Greek, not even related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave." If he separates us from them in time when you, boulgars, were still somewhere in the steppes and around Volga than what more do you want. You want to know more? Why are we ancient and you thieves of history. Why are we normal and you are bigots? read on: "When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said good-by and set out for Macedonia. He travelled through that area, speaking many words of encouragement to the people, and finally arrived in Greece, where he stayed three months. Because the Jews made a plot against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia." The Holy Bible - Acts 20:1-3 Greek propagandists claim that ancient Macedonia was Greek. Why then, would the Holy Bible distinguish between the two? 359BC Philip becomes regent of the small kingdom of Macedonia on the death of his brother, King Perdiccas, whose son is a mere child. Philip, aged 22, already displays unusual diplomatic and military acumen. 356BC Amyntas, son of the late King Perdiccas, is deposed and Philip is confirmed as absolute king. He signs a pact with the Chalcidian league which names Athens as the common enemy, and goes on to take the city of Potidaea. During the year Philip has more good news: his horse wins at Olympia and his wife, Olympias, gives birth to a son, Alexander. 351BC The orator Demosthenes denounces the expansionist policies of Philip of Macedon and castigates his fellow citizens for their lack of awareness. 348BC Philip of Macedon takes Olynthus by siege and utterly destroys it, securing control of the Chalcidice peninsula. When the Chalcidian league learnt of Philip's intentions, they broke with their former ally and appealed to Athens. Convinced by Demonsthenes, Athens at last sent an expeditionary force - but it was too late. 346BC - Despised Macedonia crushes the Greeks in the "Sacred War" The Sacred War, waged for the last ten years for possession of Greece's supreme oracle at Delphi, has ended with Philip of Macedon, despised as a barbarian by the Athenians, winning ascendancy over Greece. This unforeseen result of yet another internecine quarrel bodes ill for the city states. It started when the Thebans, who controlled the Amphictiony, the multi-state council which administers the shrine, forced through a threat of war against the Phocians unless they paid a fine for cultivating sacred ground. The Phocians, who had once had control of Delphi, chose to go to war to re-establish their position, but there then followed a period of cruel, confused warfare during which the Phocians were generally successful. But then the war drew in the ambitious Philip, who saw his opportunity to seize Greek territory. His advance and involvement in Greek affairs drew bitter attacks from Demonsthenes, who issued the first of his "Philippics" in 351BC. Athens belatedly sent an army to help Athens' allies besieged by Philip at Olynthus. It was too little and too late. Philip captured the city and razed it to the ground. Phocis has now been forced to sue for peace and Philip the Barbarian holds power in Greece. 346BC - "Puny Village" becomes a hub of empire Pella, the capital of the Ancient Macedonian Empire Athenian propaganda asserting that the Macedonian capital, Pella, is 'a puny little village' (as Demosthenes, the anti-Macedonian lobbyist, has suggested) is contradicted by eye-witness accounts of recent travellers who visited it. Far from its being an inaccessible shanty town, they say, it is approaced by a well-engineered road some 30 feet wide. It is ona vast fertile plain flanked by the sea, with a thriving port. This prime site was developed some 50 years ago by King Archelaus. Elegant buildings, with walls six feet thick, are decorated with rare pebble mosaics, Ionic and Doric colonnades, and three-foot roof tiles stamped "Pella". The palace contains murals by the great artist Zeuxis. Standards of public hygiene, water supply and drainage match the aesthetic quality of the city. The plays of Euripides are performed and the heir to the throne, young Alexander, has Aristotle as a visiting tutor. Pella is unquestionably the hub of a growing empire. 340BC - Macedonia Conquers Thrace, a flourishing kingdom of contrasts renowned for warlike shepherds and sophisticated jewellery After 20 years at war, Macedonians under Philip II are beginning to take stock of the huge and wealthy Thracian empire they now control. With lands that stretch from the Danube to the Bosporus, Philip II now rules one of the most culturally, economically and politically advanced regions in the world. Thracian treasure with its fine filigree work in silver and gold is internationally famous, with Thracian craftsmen setting new standards in fashioning jewellery, helmets and breastplates in gold and silver. Much noted are those decorated with unusual combinations of human and animal subjects, reflecting Thrace's eastern influences. This ability to generate items of wealth was a weapon in the unsuccessful campaign by Thrace's last overall ruler, Kotys, to win allies and influence friends. Kotys tried to unite Thrace's tribes of wild shepherds into an empire, reminiscent of the Persians' that would extend from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. 339BC Hostilities are renewed between Athens and Macedonia, marking the start of the fourth Sacred War. Philip II occupies Elateia, two days' march from Attica. Demosthenes saves the day for the panic-stricken Athenians by engineering an alliance between Athens and Thebes. 338BC Philip II of Macedon defeats the combined forces of Athens and Thebes at the battle of Chaeronea. With the surrender of Thebes the Boeotian league is dissolved. Philip imposes peace terms on Athens which include allying with Macedonia and dissolving the Athenian league. Struck by the generosity of their conqueror, the Athenians offer citizenship to Philip and his son, Alexander. 337BC - Philip of Macedon conquers the Greeks After a decisive defeat by Philip II of Macedon, Athenian leaders have accepted peace on terms which effectively end the traditional independence of Greek city states. In a war which began more than 20 years ago, the Macedonian "barbarian" has proved himself a master of political strategy as well as a military genius. He has used the wiles of diplomacy, marriage, banking, corruption and sabotage. His military coups include the defeat of Illyria to the north, together with Athens' maritime ally, Chalcidice, to secure his southern Aegean flank and the remorseless occupation of mainland cities. Athens, a tardy opponent, held his advance after a long battle in 352BC to control the strategic Thermopylae Pass. Philip used a temporary peace with Athens to join Thebes in its "Sacred War" against Phocis. Theses, a hollow victor, was spent. The real winner was Philip. Other governments anointed him as a peacemaker, but in 341BC he attacked Athens' allies in Thrace-Gallipoli. Renewed warfare culminated in an evenly-matched combat at Chaeronea last year. The turning point was a feigned retreat by Philip behind piles of corpses, enticing the Athenians into hot pursuit and an ambush. This was sprung by seasoned Macedonian cavalry, led by Philip's son Alexander. In the immediate aftermath of the war, Thebes has been occupied by Macedonians. Nominal self-government continues elsewhere, but without autonomy overseas. Most states must join Philip's new League of Corinth as he prepares to repay Persia for its earlier attacks. Greece is unified, but at a great cost." Please, sod off!! |
| bitushanec | TATAR BLOOD MAKES THESE "BULGARS" TO BE SO STUPID AND NOT TO UNDERSTAND: BUGAR OR VOULGAROS IS is a derogatory slang USED IN THE PAST AND USED CURRENTLY BY THE "GRKS". JUST SEE WHAT WRITES IN THE Greek-language dictionary of Prof. Georgios Babiniotis (1998): interpretation of "Bulgarian" in the Greek Language: abusive and derogative meaning - bounder n prostak churl n prostak hillbilly n prostak patsy n prostak rube n prostak rustic n prostak raff n prostak rough-neck n prostak IS IT CLEAR NOW!!!!!!!!! |
| Divider | Well, the tatars are all that and more. GFor once I agree with the G(r)eeks from the souther occupied teritories!! |
| noname | quote:Well I guess "BOYLGAROI" which is written exactly in the Skilitza's chronicle miniature that you kindly showed and is applied to Samuil's army means nothing but "STUPIDS". And of course Samuil's kingdom which is called Bulgaria by Skilitza means Stupidia in Greek language. BTW - is this second meaning of "Bulgarian" in Greek, which of course is the genuine one (SURE) present in old Greek also? |
| Divider | Noname! Nave you selected the NICK just because you are a tatar and have no name, no identity, no history etc? I guess so!! Stipidia, Bulgaria, eve today that strikes true!! You are a living proof, you and the likes of you. Basta signore!! Go home and die. Better for the world! Read my lips: SOD OFF BITCH!!!! |
| bitushanec | Y IN GREEKS IS READ G Y (Greek) = G (Lat.) So its not VOULGAROS but its VOGLTAROS......... HERE YOU CAN DECODE Y=G http://www.xs4all.nl/~wjsn/ellas.htm |
| Divider | Sheni deda tatarlar!! |
| angomako | The macedonians in Greece --------------------------------------- what macedonians in greece? the turko greeks?what macedonians?they were so few greek macedonians until 1920...the upraisings were because the times were bad,not for people having universities in their language of having bilingual schools in the counties if they are more then 20%...upraisings during the bisant times for minority rights?:) macedonians in greece.... |
| Divider | What a crack of bull!! |
| noname | quote:Sure, but don't mix the meaning of the letter GAMMA in small and in CAPITAL lettres. The capital lettre for GAMMA is "Ã" while the other is "y". Look one more time in this site that you furnished and then again at the miniature mentioned before. And here is an example from a greek text concerning St. Kliment of Ohrid (D.Homatian): "..........EÏIZKOPOY BOYËÃÀÐIÀZ TOY EN THI AXPIDI" (this is a part of the title) in the text itself the spelling of Bulgarian is always "Bouëyaqias" and "Bouëyaqous". I may easily present the same evidence from I. Zonara or others |
| noname | quote:Ahaa - so the reasons for the uprisings were just some socio-economic problems, otherwise they were happy under the Byzanine administration? Then why not refer to the Byzantines themselves: I. Zonaras discusses the leadership of PETAR DELJAN (the original is in Greek) " Since the Bulgarians, as I said earlier, were subdued by the emperor Vasilii and their state was subdued, some time the barbarians bore the burden of slavery. After that they decided to throw out the slavery and .....but the necessity of a leader ruined their plan...." |
| bitushanec | NONAME IF YOU THINK SOMETHING TO FALSIFY, DO IT, BUT DO NOT MAKE US FOOLS.... y is g and not u:-) so it not Voulgaros but Vogltaros written....if you are so stupid not to decode the inscript that is your own problem. Concerning the St. Clement, HE WAS NEWER BULGAR EPISCOPE. The all books writen in Ohrid in 9 Cent and 10 Cent speak for people of Macedonia as SLAVYANI and never has been mentioned SOMETHING EVEN SIMMILAR TO BULGAR! Have you seen the "Panonski Legendi" and "O pismenih" where Crnorizec Hrabar (probably St. Naum or St Climent) at the turn of 10 Cent. describes people of Macedonia and Ohrid like Slavyans!? Or you just making up the things? If Macedonians were Bulgars, while the old Ohrid book totally ignore bulgarian name and simply say that Macedonians are SLAYANS? Or the Bulgars have here "suspicios" "greek" text second-hand that have been deformed and purposely "wrong" translated??? 7. Kako Vie go tolkuvate faktot {to vo svojot pamflet "Za bukvite" Crnorizec Hrabar zboruva samo za slovenski narod, za slovenska azbuka i slovenski knigi i prosvetiteli, ne spomnuvaj}i ni{to za Bugarite. Istoto go pravi i Klimentoviot u~enik {to go napi{al negovoto `itie, a i toa na Naum Agiografot na Kliment i Naum, kakov sebe si se smetal {tom gi ignoriral Bugarite? 8. Bugarite bile pokrsteni vo 864/865 godina. Me|utoa, spored Prostranoto `itie na Kliment "Pokrstuvaweto na ovoj narod se slu~ilo vo 637/869 g. od sozdavaweto na svetot". Vo prviot ruski letopis "Povest vremennih let" od istata godina e odbele`ano koj narod go imal predvid Klimentoviot u~enik i ist li bil toj narod so Bugarite? Zo{to e poso~ena godinata 869? 9. Vo najstaroto `itie na Naum e re~eno deka devolskiot episkop Marko "bil ~etvrti episkop na slovenski jazik". Koi markovi pethodnici gi imal predvid u~enikot na Kliment, ako se smeta deka do ovoj period vo Pliska i Preslav dejstvuvale episkopite Stefan, Grimuald, Georgi, Josif, Leontij, a pak ako dodademe Konstatin Preslavski i Kliment, Marko bi bil 9. po red? 10. Koga i zo{to spored Vas, is~eznuva glagolicata? Kakvi se op{testveno-politi~kite okolnosti koi{to go sozdale nejzinoto otstranuvawe, koga znaeme deka kirilicata e re~isi ~isto gr~ka, a Bugarite mrazele s# {to bilo gr~ko? 11. Vo Severoisto~na Bugarija, vo manastirot "Pantelejmon" vo okolinata na Preslav, po zaminuvaweto na Naum vo 894 g. rabotat morav~anecot Konstantin, nare~en preslavski i Joan Egzarh. No, po proglasuvaweto na Simeon za car vo 915 g. ovie prosvetiteli is~eznuvaat bez da ostavat svoi u~enici i sledbenici. Zo{to? Osven toa, so is~eznuvaweto na glagolicata, slovenskata kni`nina preku Stara Planina is~eznuva za period od celi 4 veka (358 g.) i se pojavuva edvaj vo 1273 g. koga izleguva Trnovskoto Evangelie. Vo toa vreme vo Makedonija prosvetitelite prodol`uvaat da sozdavaat, me|utoa ve}e anonimno, na dve azbuki - glagolicata i sozdadenata od Kliment, koja{to nie ja narekuvame "klimentica". Kako }e go objasnite is~eznuvaweto na slovenskata kniga od drugata strana na Stara Planina, paralelno so hipotezata deka vo Bugarija slovenskiot jazik i pismenosta bile vovedeni kako oficijalni vo dr`avata? |
| noname | quote:Hey, dude - if you are on your mind try once again to consider all your "statements" - I frankly do not know what to believe fist - is it the so called "Trnovsko evangelie" (it's up to you to guess whether such a thing ever existed) or the "klimentica" stuff or the famous works of Joan Ekzarh dedicted personally to car Simenon or the fact that CHERNORIZEC HRABAR NEVER mentioned anything about Macedonia and so on and so on (frankly your conclusions are amazing and totally contradicting with the sources). In fact ALL the sources including naot only the Byzantine but the local Bulgarian sources tell completely other proof - take for instance the same Joan Ekzarh: " Sled kato na BALGARSKI EZIK kONSTANTIN-kIRIL filosof i brat mu Metodii prevedoha izbor ot Evangelieto i Apostola i 60 ustavni knigi...." (predgovor kon "Nebesa"); description of the car Simeon's palace in Preslav by Joan Ekzarh. - Tudor Chernorizec; - Chernorizec Dox (brother of kan Boris); - Prezviter Joan; - Tudor Chernorizec; - Chernorizec Doxov... i t,n, i t.n. ako te interesuva nesho za koi da e ot teh i ot site drugi - poveli!!! |
| Divider | . |
| Divider | Also, again, i feel trully sorry for ya'll!! |
| Batbayan | Macedonians, I don't understand why you'd preffer not to know the whole truth. Here we have Misirkov deleting posts that contain facts and you don't seem to care. These posts contain information that you have never been shown. Aren't you the least bit curious to know all sides of history? You know that I have not broken any rules of this forum and yet your moderators don't allow me to post quotes of history. Let's see if any of the patriots can tell me this, When was present day Macedonia recognized as an independant state? When was the present day Macedonian language recognized as a language? |
| Divider | Getting touchy, aren’t we Batbayan or plainly so you can understand: No arguments ain't that the truth!! ...we must find someone that understand the subtelties of the barbaric language spoken by the invaders from north, someone that can infiltrate Philips camp and tell abnout his intentions... Demosthenes |
| noname | quote:y is g - FINE, but what is Y and what is "Ã"? don't waste time - look yourself in the site that YOU suggested! as for the other crap - I bet you have never read "O pismenih", which by the way is written 700 km away from where Macedonia is! It surely is dedicated to slavs as we were nothing but slavs at that time! But it surely has NOTHING to do with Macedonia by thousands reasons. First of all the term "CHERNORIZEC" was applied ONLY for the writers in the St. Pantaleimon monastery and "RIZA" itself is characteristic entirely for the most eastern dialects. It doesn't mean Hrabar was born there, but it DEFINITELY means that he has been in the monastery. He states himself that he is closely familiar with Boris I and his family. Also at that time CYRILIC alphabet was still NOT used in Ohrid but was LARGELY used in Pliska. There are many other facts but you don't need any more........ |
| Divider | quote:You answer me this: why are you so keen on present days? Afraid that the past truths will prove you wrong? Is that why you are all so hung up on the present day propaganda? Answer me this my dear tatar!! |
| Batbayan | Divider, I am not only keen on present days and recent facts. Why don't you tell me this then; where was 'Macedonia' 100 years ago? Where was it 300 years ago? Where was it 800 years ago? Where was it 1000 years ago? You get the point, right? Feel free to go as far back as you want. Trace the history of the land of present day Macedonia starting 2004AD and just go backwards. Up until 1991AD a state Macedonia did not exist. The Macedonian state of Alexander went out of existance for more than 2000 years; then magically about 10 years ago it arose once again untouched and identical to the ancient Macedonian state. Your logic is laughable. You don't have logic, you don't have credebility, but most imoportantly, you don't have facts. |
| bitushanec | YOU TATARS ARE REALLY STUPID! YOU BELIEVE TO YOUR VERY OWN BULGARIAN SOURCES THAT ARE FALSIFICATED! AS YOUR "SLAVICS" WHY THE SLAVICS FROM WHOLE THE WORLD DO NOT COME TO BULGARIA ANY MORE SINCE 1995?!: BECAUSE EVERYTHING ITS FALSIFICATED BY THE BULGARS AND THE SLAVIC WORLD IS LEAFING ON YOU! IOAN EXARCH was one of the most important writers in the first decades of X Cent, who was describing the situation at the territories ruled by Bulgarians. The present Bulgarian Historians named it IOAN EXARCH BULGARIAN, but he was writing about the Bulharian Khan Simeon I (893-927 A.D.) IOAN EXARCH describes the Bulgarians, Bulgarian Boylars (Tatar Aristocracy) and Managers as bullies of the Slavs (Éîàí Åêçàðõ íàðè÷à áúëãàðñêèòå áîëÿðè è óïðàâëÿâàùè "íàñèëíèöè ñëàâÿíñêè”). IOAN EXARCH was writing in Glagoloc and consequently it was a Slav, but as we can see from his writing, it was anti-Bulgarian. So, despite the Claims of Modern Bulgarian History that Slavs merged and mixed with Bu7lgarians (Tatars) in the middle of IX Cent, we can see that even the chroniclers from X Cent. still describe the Slavs in Bulgaria as people under Bulgarian Slavery. |
| Divider | You may try to negate the facts, but eve before Alexandar there eas a land, a country called Macedonia, the inhabitants called themseves Macedonians, they still call themseves as such. We've been killed, persecuted, occupied, now we are free and that bothers you all, because despite your atempts to anihilate us, you failed, therefore you can not continue easily to claim our great heritage as your own (serbs &greeks included)!! BTW, you're still tatar with insignificant history whereas I'm and my son and the sons of his sons will be Macedonians, descendants of the Great Alexander the conqueror, Alexander the Macedonian. Of course we have some slavic blood in us, but also the genes of the ancients. You also are ancient, but due to your tatar blood! Sorry! The truth hurst. If it is not the truth than you have nothing to fear, yet you are scared to death. And I told you why. You and the likes of you need proofs, but are unable to find relevant ones so you fictionalise, you invent, you decieve, but you still failed, as you failed throughout the ages. We were great, we, as a phoenix, will rise again in our greatness. You will remain pittiful. Nonamed, insignificants, with no real background! I feel great pitty for you, but more for the brainwashed macedonians living in this fictitous Boulgaria (read, and this is how it should be called: New Tatarstan)!! |
| noname | quote:Oh, and again NO proof and of course NO evidence from the author himself! Why? Why didn't you support your claims with the original texts from the author? Why? from all the crap I think that this is the MOST striking: "IOAN EXARCH was writing in Glagoloc and consequently it was a Slav" !!!!!!!FYI - the famous work of Ioan Ekzarh "Bogoslovie" ("Nebesa") is known up to now by around 60 (sixty) writings, ALL of them in CYRILLIC alphabet. And now let's read Ioan Ekzarh HIMSELF: "...A kato minaha nekolko godini, CHESTNIJAT chovek, monahat DOKS, kogoto otidoh da posetja....me MOLESHE da preveda tulkovanijata na uchitelite........"shtom si poel tazi rabota, ti si dluzen da ja vurshish....."" P.S. - monahat DOKS e roden brat na "nasilnikot na slavjanite" knez Boris I Mihail. Ioan Ekzarh is one of the creators of the BULGARIAN language, here are some of the words that he has personally invented and introduced: - VESHT; - BITIE; - DOBRODETEL; - BLAGOCHESTIE; .............. .............. Ioan Ekzarh was born in Pliska and in 893 AD he already lived and worked in Preslav. Today most literature scientist believe that he studied together with car Simeon in Constantinople's Magnaur school. Here's something dedicated to car Simeon in "Shestodnev": "Bezprimernijat izkusnik i tvorec neka osveti tvoeto srce, gospodarju moi, CARJU veliki hristoljubche Simeone, S VSICHKI TVOI MAZE I POVINNICI..........." (khan Simeon, a???) The whole text of "Shestodnev" is studied profoundly in school and is available on-line! Next time, PLEASE, when you refer to Bulgarian authors, consider citing their works precisely with given original texts, dating, place and info about the author and the characters mentioned? |
| bitushanec | NONAME MORE TATARU NAIYAK:-) Take bi rekle moite bitushani; Read my topic "Real Bulgarians are Turks in Bulgaria" and there you will find the references and most of them are Bulgarian! AND FINALLY STOP WITH THESIS LIKE IOAN EXARCH WAS BROTHER OF SOME KHAN,,,,,SPECULLATIONS ARE VERY POPULAR AMOUNG BULGAR "HISTORIANS" AND CONSEQUENTLY UNTRUE..... Very soon will follow my column regarding the old documents from medieval times about the fights between macedonians and bulgars.... |
| Batbayan | Divider, you didn't answer my questions. Here is the post again. Read it well.
quote: quote:I would really be interested to read something like that. It may be fiction but I will analyze it. Bitushanec, how soon is "very soon"? As for the use of the term "Tatar"; you have no idea in what context you are using it. Typical behaviour of Serb propaganda effects. |
| noname | quote:No comment to this "argument"! And if you really WANT to know what the evidence shows - contact me directly. |
| Divider | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Map - Map of Europe - Bulgaria -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bulgarian is the official language in Bulgaria and it is spoken by 8.5 million people. Bulgarian has two main dialects. The eastern dialect is used as the literary language. Bulgaria was ruled under the Ottoman Empire for 500 years until 1878. Bulgarian survived in the countryside while the language was heavily influenced by the Turks, Macedonians, and Romanies (Gypsies) in the cities. The language situation in Bulgaria is rather complicated. About one million people in Bulgaria speak Turkish. At present, the Macedonians are spread out over Yugoslavia, Greece, and Bulgaria. About 250,000 Macedonians live in Bulgaria, and speak Macedonian. It is used only as a spoken language. It is similar to Bulgarian. The language of the Romanies is called Romani, and is used only as a spoken language. There are large amounts of loanwords in Bulgarian especially from Turkish and Greek. People try to avoid using them when writing, but they survive in the spoken language. The vocabulary is also influenced by Russian. Sod off tataroglu. Speak Azeri!! |
| Batbayan | Macedonians come to your senses before it is too late.
I would like to have the city of Ohrid remain in Bulgarian hands. I sure as hell don't want to see it become an Albanian village.
quote: |
| dragon | Can some patriotic administrator ban this arse? This is demented. Please. |
| Batbayan | What's the matter dragon? Afraid of the the truth? You must understand that I am here to make you aware of the events that have taken place and the events that might take place. These are facts in existance. Hiding from the truth only makes things worse. Embrase it, understand who you are. |
| dragon | Divider rules forever and his is the ultimate truth. The Dragon says: kiss my arse!! |
| CELO KOTORI | lets jus t finish this the greeks and tartars dont know their arses from their elbows and should shut the fuck up |
| angomako | quote: What's the matter dragon? Afraid of the the truth? You must understand that I am here to make you aware of the events that have taken place and the events that might take place. These are facts in existance. Hiding from the truth only makes things worse. Embrase it, understand who you are. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- we need batbayan to save us...and he is willing to save us!!!!!!! now i feel so much better.everybody,batbayan is with us. |
| Divider | What language are you speaking? Afraid of your macedonian heritage? Repent sinner and embrace the truth. You are either a Macedonian or a tatarlar! BTW: "Bulgarian survived in the countryside while the language was heavily influenced by the Turks, Macedonians, and Romanies (Gypsies) in the cities." Batbayan, salaam alejkum! Masalaami!! Me razbra. Ti zboram na varijanta a onoj jazik sto go zborel dedo ti konjoobljubuvacot dodeka jazdel vo stepite barajki mesto da se skrasi i da fornicira so najbliskite! |