| TRUE BULGARS ARE TURKS IN BULGARIA |
| bitushanec |
Opposite of the claims of present Bulgarian History, the medieval history sources say that Ante (Bulgarian Slavs) were in slavery and subordinate relations with Bulgars Tatars, who were Masters of the seven Antae tribes and sole Rulers of Bulgaria.
Constantinopole (Byzantine) Patriarch Nikifor writes that Bulgarians subjugated the Slavs.
Byzantine Author Theofanus says that subjugated 7 Antae tribes were forced to pay tax to the Bulgarians. [See. GIBU, Т.III. С., 1960, с. 297 и 264].
In 767 AD by request of Byzant, the Bulgarians had arrested and have handed over to the Byzantens the Prince Slavun, Leader of Bulgarian Antes –Slavs.
IOAN EXARCH was one of the most important writers in the first decades of X Cent, who was describing the situation at the territories ruled by Bulgarians. The present Bulgarian Historians named it IOAN EXARCH BULGARIAN, but writing about the Bulharian Khan Simeon I (893-927 A.D.)
he describes the Bulgarians, Bulgarian Boylars (Tatar Aristocracy) and Managers as bullies of the Slavs (Йоан Екзарх нарича българските боляри и управляващи "насилници славянски”). IOAN EXARCH was writing in Glagoloc and consequently it was a Slav, but as we can see from his writing, it was anti-Bulgarian. So, despite the Claims of Modern Bulgarian History that Slavs merged and mixed with Bu7lgarians (Tatars) in the middle of IX Cent, we can see that even the chroniclers from X Cent. still describe the Slavs in Bulgaria as people under Bulgarian Slavery.
Not to forget the fact that Bulgarian Slavs were not called Sclaveni or Slavs in that time, but after receipt of the Slavonic Language they were named as “Slavjani” – Slavs. Each nation that receipt the Slavonic Alphabet and Slavonic Language started to be named “Slav” informs Pasii Hilendarski, Author of the first History of Bulgaria “Slavianoblgarska istorija” in 1765.(Source: История салвеноболгарская, собрана и нареждана Паисием иеромонахом... ). “Slavianoblgarska istorija” is based on Legends and written by Pasii Hilendarski and Dervish Husametdin Muslimi who distributed among the Volga, Kavkaz and Danube Bulgarian-Tatars. This “History” is actually typical national-romantic “Legend” about the great Bulgaria and pretending all people from Belgrade to Salonica and from Black up to Adriatic Sea that are pure Bulgarians. But its interesting that the whole modern Bulgarian History is based on the “Legends” of Pasii Hilendarski and Dervish Husametdin Muslimi who equalized the Tatars with Slavs, that is entirely untruth.
Mediveal Kiev Author from Kiev Russia describes the Bulgarians as Tatars who were Slavic slayers and lived along Danube (Source: Киевски летописец също пише: “...рекоми Българе и седоша по Дунаеви, и насильницы словеном быша” <Державин, Н.С. История на България. Том І, с.213>, Derzhavin, N.S. Bulgarian History. Volume I, page 213).
Furthremore, there are NO records that Slavs took positions in the Bulgar (Tatar) Country Administration and Army; Turko-Tatarian Bulgars were absolute rulers of Bulgaria. All positions in the Bulgarian State were assigned to real Tatars-Bulgars and to the people from Tatar stock like Kumans, Pechenegs etc. Even the Bulgarian Rulers up to the XIV Cent. were all of Tatarian Stock, not only from small Bulgaria (territory between Danube and Stara Planina), but also from the Tatarstan. [Виж. И. (Source: Snegarov. Christianity in Bulgaria before baptizing og Khan Boris, “Yearbook of the spiritual Academy”, 1956, p. 218 - Снегаров. Християнството в България преди покръстването на княза Бориса. С., Годишник на Духовната академия, 1956, с.218].
|
| noname |
quote:
...............
В “Чудесата на Св. Димитър Солунски” четем: “... Кубер, като преминал победоносно р. Дунав с цялото си племе, дойде по нашата земя и завладя Керамисийското поле. Но за кратко им беше престоя”.
........
Tipchen primer kako Radule gi "citira" izvorite.
I eve go tuka CELIOT tekst na "Chudesata..." - sekoi moze da proveri dokolko Radule e pochten, chesten i pravdiv:
http://recult.by.ru/lib/byzant/dms.htm |
| Divider |
Noname, you are back. Well, t be honest nobody misses you. Go bak whence you came from and leave the inteligent folk to discuss. |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by Divider
Noname, you are back. Well, t be honest nobody misses you. Go bak whence you came from and leave the inteligent folk to discuss.
So did you find Radule's "quote" of the byzantine source in the SOURCE itself? |
| Divider |
I'm not talking to you leave please. You are polluting the forum.
You do not appreciate historical fact, you post lies and expect learned people to bow. Sorry, nobody listens to lies and half truths. OK. Begone to the pit from where you crawled from. |
| noname |
quote:
Vladimir's first wife (her name was not preserved), the mother of his sons Boris and Gleb, the first Russian saints, according to Priselkov could have been a member of the family of Tsar Samuel because of the fact that their Christian names, Roman and David, were very common among Samuel's courtiers.
If we are to follow your NAME based logics does it mean that Boris - Olga's first son was CLOSELY connected to kan Omurtag's grandson Boris I? (just asking)?
And the name OLGA? What is the ETHNIC origin of this name - does it have ANYTHING in common with ANY Balkan ethnos?
You know where Oleg came from?
Our Russian friends may enlighten you quite easily[:)] |
| bitushanec |
ITS NOT RADULE, BUT OFFICIAL TATARSTAN WHO CLAIM THAT BULGARS IN 13 CENT SPOKE TATARIAN: http://kazan.ws/cgi-bin/eng/view.pl?idr=29&mr=11
ITS TAKEN FROM ABOBVE SITE:
...The name "tata", "Tatars" came in the beginning of Middle Ages from far China where this name referred to one of the Mongolian tribes....
........Even the great historian and thinker Rodger Becon in the great composition, Opus Magnum, written in in the second half of XIII century, wrote: "Great Bulgaria, whence occur Bulgars, living between Constantinople, Hungary and Sklavonia. That one located in Europe, - Small Bulgaria, and they speak the language of Bulgars, living in Great Bulgaria which is in Asia." ................
BULGARS WERE TATARS AND SPOKE TATARIAN IN 13 CENT! |
| Divider |
Noname, i told you already. You are not abe to face the truth because the coneuences for you are dire. You will have all your lies revealed and your soul will be left with nothing. You will then sufocate on the bluntness of the great truth and die. Run man, run before it is to late or repent and say out loud: I was wrong, they are right. I repent. I believe. I am a tatar with no history or culture. I wll try to make my own history from now on. I will not steal other nations histories. Repeat this 100 times and maybe, I say maybe you will ave yourself. Otherwise run. |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by Divider
Noname, i told you already. You are not abe to face the truth because the coneuences for you are dire. You will have all your lies revealed and your soul will be left with nothing. You will then sufocate on the bluntness of the great truth and die. Run man, run before it is to late or repent and say out loud: I was wrong, they are right. I repent. I believe. I am a tatar with no history or culture. I wll try to make my own history from now on. I will not steal other nations histories. Repeat this 100 times and maybe, I say maybe you will ave yourself. Otherwise run.
With respects, ...... do you personally believe in such an "argument'? |
| Divider |
...The Bulgars were an ancient people with a disputed land of origin. Some say they are from the Volga region in today's Ukraine and Russia, while others claim that they originated from somewhere in central Asia around the Pamir. The Bulgars eventually emigrated to today's south-eastern Ukraine. In 632, Han Kubrat united the Bulgars and formed a confederation of tribes, known as Great Bulgaria, or Bulgaria Magna, with a capital at the ancient city of Fanagoria. When Great Bulgaria broke up after the death of Han Kubrat, his sons took their own tribes and travelled elsewhere. Han Asparuh and his followers migrated into the Balkans, where they merged with the local Slavic, Thracian inhabitants. Eventually they were overrun by the native Macedonians and driven into enclaves on the shores of the Black Sea... |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by bitushanec
ITS NOT RADULE, BUT OFFICIAL TATARSTAN WHO CLAIM THAT BULGARS IN 13 CENT SPOKE TATARIAN: http://kazan.ws/cgi-bin/eng/view.pl?idr=29&mr=11
ITS TAKEN FROM ABOBVE SITE:
...The name "tata", "Tatars" came in the beginning of Middle Ages from far China where this name referred to one of the Mongolian tribes....
........Even the great historian and thinker Rodger Becon in the great composition, Opus Magnum, written in in the second half of XIII century, wrote: "Great Bulgaria, whence occur Bulgars, living between Constantinople, Hungary and Sklavonia. That one located in Europe, - Small Bulgaria, and they speak the language of Bulgars, living in Great Bulgaria which is in Asia." ................
BULGARS WERE TATARS AND SPOKE TATARIAN IN 13 CENT!
Well, apart from the fact that the source is wrongly QUOTED, let's presume it's authentic in the way it is! Right!
"...Great Bulgaria, whence occur Bulgars, living between Constantinople, Hungary and Sklavonia. That one located in Europe, - Small Bulgaria,..."
Could someone clarify the above "quote"?
Not to mentione the fact that Bulgarian language is LARGELY presented at that time not only from the enormous quantities of official documents, but through a significant literature of all kinds and last but NOT least through the numerous EPIGRAPHIC monuments reffering to ordinary individuals throughout the country. In fact the historiography has registered abundance of written sources compared with the rest of Europe especially from the capital - Veliko Tarnovo area.
P.S. - ready to provide enough sources and complete texts covering the period! |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by Divider
Some say they are from the Volga region in today's Ukraine and Russia,
With respects..you suggest that Volga region is in ......Ukraine?
[:(!][:(!][:(!]
|
| Divider |
Yo, dumbass, it is not me it is rom a Russian history book from 19 century. |
| bitushanec |
Ej Tataroglou.....the quotation from Rodger Bacon clearly says: BULGARS FROM SMALL BULGARIA (Present Bulgaria) spoke TATARIC AS THE TATARS-BULGARS IN GREATER BULGARIA IN VOLGA REGION! Its so simle and clear! IN GREAT BULGARIA PEOPLE HAVE NEVER SPOKE SLAVONIC...STILL THEY SPEAK CHUVASH-TATARIC TONQUE! |
| Divider |
World Map - Map of Europe - Bulgaria
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bulgarian is the official language in Bulgaria and it is spoken by 8.5 million people. Bulgarian has two main dialects. The eastern dialect is used as the literary language.
Bulgaria was ruled under the Ottoman Empire for 500 years until 1878. Bulgarian survived in the countryside while the language was heavily influenced by the Turks, Macedonians, and Romanies (Gypsies) in the cities. The language situation in Bulgaria is rather complicated.
About one million people in Bulgaria speak Turkish.
At present, the Macedonians are spread out over Yugoslavia, Greece, and Bulgaria. About 250,000 Macedonians live in Bulgaria, and speak Macedonian. It is used only as a spoken language. It is similar to Bulgarian.
The language of the Romanies is called Romani, and is used only as a spoken language.
There are large amounts of loanwords in Bulgarian especially from Turkish and Greek. People try to avoid using them when writing, but they survive in the spoken language. The vocabulary is also influenced by Russian.
da ne go sakas i linkot za da proveris, tatarlar!! Ben turkce bilmein tatarlar!
|
| Divider |
Here you go, choke yourself:
http://www.ling.gu.se/projekt/sprakfrageladan/english/varldskarta/eng-bul.html |
| bitushanec |
Furthremore, there are NO records that Slavs took positions in the Bulgar (Tatar) Country Administration and Army; Turko-Tatarian Bulgars were absolute rulers of Bulgaria. All positions in the Bulgarian State were assigned to real Tatars-Bulgars and to the people from Tatar stock like Kumans, Pechenegs etc. Even the Bulgarian Rulers up to the XIV Cent. were all of Tatarian Stock, not only from small Bulgaria (territory between Danube and Stara Planina), but also from the Tatarstan. [Виж. И. (Source: Snegarov. Christianity in Bulgaria before baptizing og Khan Boris, “Yearbook of the spiritual Academy”, 1956, p. 218 - Снегаров. Християнството в България преди покръстването на княза Бориса. С., Годишник на Духовната академия, 1956, с.218].
So, the theory of the official Bulgarian State that present Bulgarian nation represent a blend of Tatars and Slavs (Antes) is totally absurd, not confirmed with written or spoken historical sources. As we can see from the mediveal historical sources, the Slavs in present Bulgaria were occupied nation and the blending could occur only in real Bulgaria, at the territory between Danube and Stara Planina where the real Bulgars-Tatars settled in the middle of 7 Cent., but not in the other regions of present Bulgaria.
Another prove that Bulgarians never blended with the Slavs gives Bacon, Roger, DOCTOR MIRABILIS (LATIN: "WONDERFUL TEACHER"), English Franciscan philosopher and educational reformer who was a major medieval proponent of experimental science. Roger Bacon who were among Bulgarians (Tatars) in his "Opus majus" written 1267/68 states: ..Small Bolgaria is in Europe and there they speak in the language of the Bolgars who live in Great Bolgaria, which is in Asia...". So the language of Bulgarians in 13 Cent. wasn’t Slav, but actually Turko-Tatar.
Turkish Ottomans occupied Bulgaria in 1396 and left it 1878. As the real Bulgarians were of Turko-Tatar Stock same as the Ottomans and both shared common Language and Culture, after arriving of Ottomans in present Bulgaria, the real Bulgarians converted into Islam and started declaring themselves as Turks. Bulgarian official History claims that the ruling layer of Bulgarian Society in 14 Cent. voluntary converted into Islam in order to keep the privileges; as we know the ruling layer of Bulgarian Society were Boyars- original Turko-Tatar Bulgars. Source:
1. Д-р Божидар Петрановиh. Богомили, цръква Босоньска и кръстяни. У Задру, 1867.
2. Д-р Franjo Racki. Bogomili i Patareni. Zagreb, 1870. Тоже "Rad" jugoslovenske akademije, VII, VIII и Х кн.
3. Н. А. Осокин. История Альбигойцев и их времени, т. 1, Казань, 1869.
4. Р. Каролев. За богомилството. Период. списание, 1871 г., кн. З, с. 53.
5. Вл. Ал. Левитский. Богомильско-болгарская ерес Х-XIV. "Христианское Чтение", Спб., 1870.
6. а) Сборник за народни умотворения и народопис, кн. 14.
б) "Български преглед", г. III, кн. 1-2
в) "Български преглед", г. I, кн. 11 -12.
г) Сборник за народни умотворения, кн. 19.
7. Д. Маринев. Чипровци или Кипровец. Сборник за народни умотворения, кн, 11, с. 135.
8. Д. Е. Такела. Някогашните павликяни и сегашните католици в Пловдивско, Сборник за народни умотворения, кн. 11, с. 103.
9. Fr. Е. Fcrmendi'n. Ada Bulgariae ecclesiastica ab anno 1565 usgue ad annum 1799. Zagrabiae, 1887 г. (Monum Spect histor. Slavon. meridionalium).
Also, a small numbers of Slavs in present Bulgaria converted into Islam, now known as “Pomaks”; but its specifically that the “Pomaks” even though Islamized have retained their slavic language.
|
| bitushanec |
Its quite selfunderstandable that original Turko-Tatarian Bulgarians after converting into Islam merged with Ottomans, mostly due to their common Turko-Tatar origin as well as language. Another prove that confirms this fact is that in the Census carried out in year 1880 the majority of people in small Bulgaria (the territory between Danube and Stara Planina) was majority inhabited with Turks and there were even place without any slavophones. For example the Census 1880 says that the Turkish presence in this region was: in Shumen Municipality 70%; Eski Dzhumaia Municipality – 76%; Osman Pazarska Municipality (Trgovishte) – 87; Al. Kandarska Municipality – 90; Kurt Bunarska – 94%; Novi Pazar – 71%; Novo Selo– 75%; Preslav – 59%; Tutrakan – 66%; Dobritsch – 64%; Provadii – 75%; Popov – 70%; Razgrad – 69%; Силистренска – 57% etc. Not to forget that the Census was carried out in 1880, while previously, during the Turko-Russian Wars 1877-78 majority of Turkish people from Bulgaria as refugees escaped in Asia Minor.
In XVI Cenrt. P. Djurich who lived 9 years in Provadia tells that Bulgarian Turks are actually the successors of Asparukh Bulgarians. The pioneer of Bulgarian Archeology Shkorpil, has collected the Legends among Bulgarian people that settled along Danube that the “Turks” in their region came from Russia, from the other side of Danube, which confirms the fact that real Bulgarians now we can find among the numerous Turkish minority in Bulgaria. Source: (Виж. Страшимир Димитров. Някои проблеми на етническите и ислямизационно-асимилаторските процеси в българските земи през ХV-ХVІІІ в. Тази статия е включена в издаден от БАН труд “Проблеми на развитието на българската народност и нация, София, издателство на БАН, 1988). During the Turkish Rule many historians like Dr Chomakov, G. Krstevich, I. Kasabov and the great Turkish Reformer Mithad Pasha inform that Turks in Bulgaria are succesors of true Bulgarians-Tatars; Afterwards, this fact share the pioneers of Bulgarian Archeology brothers Shkorpil L. Miletich, G. Zanaetov, N. Nachoev etc
In the Bulgarian Census 1880 as Turks were not included Gagauz people of Bulgarian Stock (Turko-Tatars), who live in present north Bulgaria, actually real small Bolgaria (between Stara Planian and Danube). Gagauz people preserved their Orthodox faith, so its believed that this people are sole remains of Asparukh Bulgars who were not islamized. As during the Ottoman Rule in Bulgaria the converting from Islam into Christianity was punished with death penalty, its quite certain that Gagauz people are the only remains of Asparukh Bulgars who were not islamized. I just would like to stress that after the Russian-Turkish wars 1878, majority of Gaguzians fled into Besarabia - Moldova, Uzbekistan, Ukraine etc. In this time period, the people in Bulgaria were majority Turks according to the carried out Censuses (Source: Grapcev V. P. AN. SSSR "Balkanskie Vladenija Osmanskoj imperii na rubeze 18-19 veka". M., Nauka, 1990, str. 9)
The people in Bulgaria in XVIII and XIX Cent were declaring themselves as Serbs and Greeks, but not as Bulgarians. Bulgarian history sources say that people of Bulgaria hated the Bulgarians and Bulgarian name (Source: Slavianob`lgarska Istoriya - [Славянобългарска история][Паисий Хилендарски] / Georgiev Kosta, “Filetizm ili proklyatie”, Sofia 1995 - Георгиев Коста, "Филетизъм или проклятие" София, 1995.)
|
| bitushanec |
Russia had a big role in creation of Bulgaria and Bulgarian nation. Due to the goals of Russia to expand politically and territory at the Balkan it starts war with the Ottoman Impery. Russo-Turkish War started in 1768 and ended in 1774 with victory of Russian over Ottomans. The Ottomans were forced to permit opening an Office of Russian State in Istanbul, throw which the Russia started it influence among the Slavic people at the Balkan. The main goal of Russia was creation of “Great Bulgaria”, a Country that will rule over Serbia, Macedonia, parts of Greece and Albania. Through Great Bulgaria, the Russian Administration could control the whole Balkan Penincyla, as Bulgaria is the neighbor Country of Russia, with Bulgarian Capital near to the Russian States and very easy to control it. For that reason Russian Administration got the task to create a big bulgarian nation, composed of all Slavic people at the Balkan.
Due to the fact that even the Slavic people in Bulgaria did not feel like Bulgarians, Russia started a Propaganda among Slavic people for creation of a big Bulgarian nation, immediately after opening it office in Istanbul. Young and Intelligent Slavic people from present Bulgaria were given Scholarships by Russian Administration and educated in Russia, who were afterwards sent back home for “bulgarisation” of the slavic people. Among the Russian Propagators in Bulgaria we have to mention the Creators of the Bulgarian State in 19 Cent: Georgi Sava Rakovski /1821 – 1867/. A major part in the liberation movement was played by Vasil Levski /1837- 1873/ - a strategist and ideologist of the movement, a national hero; Liuben Karavelov /1834 – 1879/ - a writer and publicist, leader and ideologist of the movement; Hristo Botev /1848 – 1876/ - a poet and publicist, revolutionary, democrat, a national hero; as well as many other Bulgarians who were educated in Russia.
The propaganda consisted of introducing among the common Slavic people the world “Bolgar”, as a synonym for “Slavonic Christian”; As this propaganda was so strong, really the word “Bolgar” became a synonym for “Christian that speak Slavonic” in the 19 Cent., but not and nationality. When bulgarian peasant used to say "we are Bulgars", he meant "we are Christians", i.e. Orthodox. The Russian Tsar was a "Bulgarian Tsar" for him not by nationality, but by Orthodox Christianity.
(Source: A. Teodorov-Balan, Edna makedonska teorija - Periodichesko spisanie (Sofia), LXV (1904), p.818). |
| Divider |
Yup, correct, there are macedonians and tatars in Bulgaria, maybe some vlachs also!! |
| Batbayan |
Here at a Macedonian History forum; you talk about Bulgarian history, why would that be?
I am flattered to have a whole post dedicated to Bulgaria. What you have written contains some truths and some faults, regardless, you took the time to search for information on Bulgaria. Good for you!
Keep searching and you will figure it all out. Look at maps, if you don't feel like reading, they speak for themsleves. |
| Kuber Varkuni |
List of Bulgar tribes
Tribes thought to have been Bulgaric in origin include:
Utighur
Kutrighur (Kotrags)
The Kuber Varkuni
Asparukh's Horde
Altasek's Horde
The Unok-vndur federation
Dissolution of Great Bulgaria and subsequent migration:
...A fourth group of Bulgars under Kuber settled in western Macedonia and eastern Albania where it formed a khanate, which launched joint attacks on Byzantium with the Slavs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar
bitushanec writes:
"For example the Census 1880 says that the Turkish presence in this region was: in Shumen Municipality 70%; Eski Dzhumaia Municipality – 76%; Osman Pazarska Municipality (Trgovishte) – 87; Al. Kandarska Municipality – 90; Kurt Bunarska – 94%; Novi Pazar – 71%; Novo Selo– 75%; Preslav – 59%; Tutrakan – 66%; Dobritsch – 64%; Provadii – 75%; Popov – 70%; Razgrad – 69%"
batka ta nie gi ritnaxme otdavna!!! what will the same Census say about Ohrid??? They were everywhere dude!!!
"Its quite selfunderstandable that original Turko-Tatarian Bulgarians after converting into Islam merged with Ottomans, mostly due to their common Turko-Tatar origin as well as language" --
the turks came in the 14 century brother!!! the written and spoken language at the time in Bulgaria was...bulgarian -- the same we speak now.
|
| Skitian |
quote:
All positions in the Bulgarian State were assigned to real Tatars-Bulgars and to the people from Tatar stock like Kumans, Pechenegs etc.
FOR IGNORANT MACEDONIAN "HISTORIANS":
THE CUMANS WERE THE PEOPLE WITH BLOND HAIR AND BLUE EYES!!!!! |
| bitushanec |
FOr the tatarians here:
1. BULGARIAN LANGUAGE MENT TURKO-TATARIAN LANGUAGE IN 14 CENT (SEE BACON WHO VISIOTED SMALL BULGARIA- YOUR LAND). MODERN BULGARIAN LANGUAGE IS MACEDONIAN!
2. TURKS IN MACEDONIA HAVE NEWER BEEN 90% IN SOME REGIONS! MOST OF ALL TURKS IN MACEDONIANS WERE IN THE TOWNS, WHILE THE VILLIGES WERE MOSTRLY MACEDONIAN! EVEN IN THE TOWNS NOT MORE THAN 30% OF THE POPULATIN WERE TURKS!
3. THE MAJORITY OF DOCUMENTS PRESENTED ARE BULGARIAN! |
| Skitian |
quote:
1. BULGARIAN LANGUAGE MENT TURKO-TATARIAN LANGUAGE IN 14 CENT (SEE BACON WHO VISIOTED SMALL BULGARIA- YOUR LAND). MODERN BULGARIAN LANGUAGE IS MACEDONIAN!
Ha-ha-ha this is a funny story....
Lets see the facts:
Bulgarian had their own state after 7-sentury.
Macedonia at those days was only administrative unit in Roman Empire.
Conclusion1: There is a state - there is a language.
There isn't a state - there is a speech, accent, manner of speaking.
Conclusion2: It's imposible that in Bulgaria the language is "Macedonian" becose State of Macedonia exist since you know when.
Conclusion3: The german scientists create a nuclear bomb in USA. The question is who create the NB USA or Germany.
By analogy - At the time of creation of the Alphabet is there state of Macedonia or there is state of Bulgaria?
It doesn't matter which is the ethnical origin of Cyril and Methodij - whithout Bulgaria the existence of their life-work should be impossible. |
| Divider |
Pred da posti svet i vek, bil haos. Toj haos go naravile bugarite. POsle dosol gospod i probal da sredi nesto od nesto, ama haosot na bugarite nitu on ne mozel da go sredi.
Inaku bugarite se od urANUS!! |
| bitushanec |
А какво да кажем, че само допреди 12-15 години мастити български професори “аргументирано доказваха”, че турците в цяла днешна България са си българи. На базата на тези “доказателства”, беше организиран “възродителен процес” и възвърнати българските имена на турците в България.
Съпостъвете кое да е определение за нация, със ситуацията България, български народ и татарите край Волга, като език, обичаи, физически облик, обща територия и т.н. и нормалният човек едва ли ще намери много общи белези, формиращи нацията. Това не пречи на бившия български президент Ж. Желев да защитава пред руските власти българите край Волга и да се ядосва, че руските власти ги считат за татари [Желев, Ж. В голямата политика, 1998]. Разбира се ние се отнасяме с уважение към националните чувства на татарите към Волга и щом те се чувстват българи нека бъдат такива.
Но не е само това. “Славизирайки” тюрко-българите българските историци ще представят завоеванията на тюркските ханове като стремеж за обединяване на българското племе(?!), макар че фактите говорят друго. Хан Крум победил византийския император Никифор през 811 г. и завоювал земи на юг от Стара планина. Същата година “хан Крум опустошил Северна Македония и отвел много славяни и гърци в робство” [Энциклопедический словарь Брокгауз - Ефрон. Т.ХVIII. С. Петербург, 1896, с.416. Цит. по К. Георгиев, Филетизъм или проклятие, София, 1995].
Лъжа : Кирил и Методи били българи. В българската историческа литература ще намерите, че даже Горазд бил българин, макар че той е роден във Великоморавия. А писателят Слав Караславов написа разказ в който пише, че на Методи му умирали децата защото воювал срещу своите братя българите. Тук няма да се спираме подоробно на тази лъжа тъй като тя се разглежда и по-долу. |
| bitushanec |
HISTORICA SOURCES CLAIM THAT KUBER NEWER SETTLED IN MACEDONIA
Сведенията за дружината на Кубер са противоречиви, но от всички личи, че той не е оставил трайни следи в Македония. Към казаното ще допълним, че Кубер се заселил най-напред в днешните унгарски земи сред живеещия там народ. По-късно вдигнал въстание срещу своя владетел - аварския хаган. Бил разбит и с остатъците (състоящи се от тюрки и ромеи-пленници на хагана) избягал във Византия. Заселил се в Керамисийското или Битолското поле в областта на славянското племе Драгувити, с разрешението на византийските власти [Державин, Н.С. История на България. Том I. София, Славиздат,1948, с.217). Някои историци считат, че той идва с около 10,000 души (включително византийските пленници). След време Кубер тръгва срещу Солун. Тук той окончателно е разбит от византийците. Бойците му са избити и пленени. Според други източници те напуснали Македония. В “Чудесата на Св. Димитър Солунски” четем: “... Кубер, като преминал победоносно р. Дунав с цялото си племе, дойде по нашата земя и завладя Керамисийското поле. Но за кратко им беше престоя”. По-нататък пише, че заминали към Тракия и от там към Цариград. Керамисийското поле, някои го отъждествяват с Битолското, а други с Щипското. |
| bitushanec |
ако това беше така както вие го твърдите, то Кирил и Методи нямаше да създават славянска, а тюркска азбука. Климент Охридски нямаше да говори и пише на славянски, а на тюркски. Вгледайте се в запазените книги от оня период от Македония и вие няма да намерите нито една тюркска дума. Ако Вие сте прав, г-н Димитров, то образите на Кирил и Методи, на Климент Охридски, иконографисани в черкви и манастири, давани в исторически книги и учебници са груб фалшификат. Знае се, че тюрко-българите са били с бръснати глави и са оставяли перчеми, чийто брой е бил в зависимост от положението, което индивида е заемал в обществото (Вижте Иречек). Би следвало така да рисувате казаните славянски просветители. Кирил, с високото си положение във Византийската империя, би следвало на бръснатата му глава да стърчат десетина перчема.
|
| Skitian |
George Radule's fantasy is illimited but unfortunately for you has not a historical value. Did you hear some historians to refer to his "work" |
| Divider |
Хехехе, кажи му Битушанец, хехехе!! |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by bitushanec
FOr the tatarians here:
1. BULGARIAN LANGUAGE MENT TURKO-TATARIAN LANGUAGE IN 14 CENT (SEE BACON WHO VISIOTED SMALL BULGARIA- YOUR LAND). MODERN BULGARIAN LANGUAGE IS MACEDONIAN!
2. TURKS IN MACEDONIA HAVE NEWER BEEN 90% IN SOME REGIONS! MOST OF ALL TURKS IN MACEDONIANS WERE IN THE TOWNS, WHILE THE VILLIGES WERE MOSTRLY MACEDONIAN! EVEN IN THE TOWNS NOT MORE THAN 30% OF THE POPULATIN WERE TURKS!
3. THE MAJORITY OF DOCUMENTS PRESENTED ARE BULGARIAN!
Are you sure you presented even one document? Exept of course Radule's wishful thinking and "quotes". |
| Divider |
...The christening of Kiev Russia, chronologically, parallels the existence of the Empire of Tsar Samuel. Samuel's Church, the Ohrid Archbishopric, which raised its status to that of Patriarchy during his reign, maintained strong relations with many Slav peoples, a fact that is undisputed. (3) Some scholars (and M.D. Priselkov in particular) thought that the Ohrid Archbishopric maintained its jurisdiction over the Russian Church even after Macedonia fell under Byzantium's rule during the reign of Basil II. Priselkov thought that the grandson of Princess Olga, Prince Vladimir, was also Christianised in Ohrid and that it may have happened in 987 AD. Vladimir's first wife (her name was not preserved), the mother of his sons Boris and Gleb, the first Russian saints, according to Priselkov could have been a member of the family of Tsar Samuel because of the fact that their Christian names, Roman and David, were very common among Samuel's courtiers. Another possibility is that the relations between Kiev and Ohrid cooled off after Prince Vladimir married Ana, the sister of the Byzantine emperor, after he was widowed by the death of his first wife...
Read it and weep. It is from your friend, the Soviets, ups, Rusians. |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by Divider
Yo, dumbass, it is not me it is rom a Russian history book from 19 century.
With respects....do you frankly believe that any...Russian in 19 or 15 or 17 or 11 or (just whatever century) didn't know if Volga region is in Ukraine? |
| noname |
quote:
Originally posted by bitushanec
Ej Tataroglou.....the quotation from Rodger Bacon clearly says: BULGARS FROM SMALL BULGARIA (Present Bulgaria) spoke TATARIC AS THE TATARS-BULGARS IN GREATER BULGARIA IN VOLGA REGION! Its so simle and clear! IN GREAT BULGARIA PEOPLE HAVE NEVER SPOKE SLAVONIC...STILL THEY SPEAK CHUVASH-TATARIC TONQUE!
With respects...did I really asked anything about the language?
BTW - do you really want me to present the original text of the source or you don't need it?
I guess,[:0] I don't have to bother... |
| klamer |
quote:
Originally posted by Divider
Here you go, choke yourself:
http://www.ling.gu.se/projekt/sprakfrageladan/english/varldskarta/
I'm a little bit confused, but there arent topic about Makedonia. |
| Divider |
Read on, dumbass!! |
| Batbayan |
quote:
MODERN BULGARIAN LANGUAGE IS MACEDONIAN!
It is ignorant statements like this that are poluting your forums.
A language that has been recognized as a language only 10 years... A Bulgarian dialect being recognized as a separate language. It is laughable.
The problem is that if this type of propaganda continues over the next 100 years, the inhabitants of Macedonia along with the rest of the World might really start believing that this is the truth.
The hope lies within the educated population. The population that is aware of the events that took place in history.
quote:
2. TURKS IN MACEDONIA HAVE NEWER BEEN 90% IN SOME REGIONS! MOST OF ALL TURKS IN MACEDONIANS WERE IN THE TOWNS, WHILE THE VILLIGES WERE MOSTRLY MACEDONIAN! EVEN IN THE TOWNS NOT MORE THAN 30% OF THE POPULATIN WERE TURKS!
Let us not forget that the Turks are pushed out of present day Bulgaria in 1878; they are pushed out of present day Macedonia in 1912. |
| dragon |
Divder already explained. When he is rested will explain again, but for a price this time. |
| Batbayan |
Dragon, there is no need for anyone to explain at this moment. Right now what is essential that we do is simply look at the facts. Then once all the facts are out we can think about explaining. |
| dragon |
You talk to the Dragon, you'll get burned. Divider is the nice one. I'll just tell you plainly: TATAROGLU, SOD OFF!!
Makedonija na Makedoncite!!
P.S. Misirkov, I'm tired of teaching stupids, please intervene!! |
| Batbayan |
The facts burn the Serb propaganda.
You fear the truth and you simply want to get rid of it. You will never get rid of it. You might be able to hide it for a little.
Is this how your parents have tought you to address the truth and the facts? By using profanity? Well, I will tell you this; profanity doesn't get you anywhere, it makes you look ignorant. Profanity gets you no respect nor credebility! |
| dragon |
Too bad he is on: На кратка пауза поради префорсираност!!
The Dragon says: Toss someones grainy salad!! |