WIKIPEDIA go smena potekloto na Makedoncite
WIKIPEDIA go smena potekloto na Makedoncite
Great_Macedonian Kliknete ovdeka http://forums.vmacedonia.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7404&whichpage=6 November 28, 2004... na ovoj forum kopirav tekst od wikipedia koj glasese: 'The Macedonian Slavs are an ethnic group which inhabits the wider Macedonian region and speaks the Macedonian language. They are generally associated with the Macedonian Orthodox Church and are said to be the descendents of ancient Macedonian, Thracian, Illyrian, and Slavic tribes.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Slavs DENES january 3rd, 2005.. kliknete na istiot link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Slavs i ke vidite kako preku noik nekoj vo 'wikipedia' go smenil delot sto kazuva deka sme potomci na antickite makedonci, vo potomci na "bulgars" sega istiot tekst glasi vaka: 'The Macedonian Slavs are an ethnic group which inhabits the wider Macedonian region and speaks the Macedonian language. They are generally associated with the Macedonian Orthodox Church and are said to be the descendents of ancient Thracian, Illyrian, Slavic and Bulgar tribes.' Od sekogas sum znael deka Wikipedia e anti-makedonska no koj dusman gi natera kade sto pisuva "... decendents of ancient macedonians" da go zamenat so " decendents of..... bulgar tribes"
Great_Macedonian ostajgi dejan, koj gi ebi.. neznam sto kur baret da se vrtat po makedonski forumi ovije tatari
dejan pa tuka dovadjat, deka sakat nie da gi naucime nasata istorija, i isto, koj narod se bugarite, za toa se vrtat tuka:p
Great_Macedonian quote Saturn: I think that one can get the best view from foreign sources NOT just one tho read as many as possible and then construct your idea.. ------------------------------------ Foreign sources? offcourse, this is why bulgar and greek nationalists post their bullshit on wikipedia about other peoples history, just so that the world would believe their bullshit about the macedonians, which those two nations dont even recognise.
dejan well you know i'm not 100% sure about how many 'greats' there should be. But it was during the time when Bulgars were showing their true ethnic origin, showing their true tatar forms. Ok, you deny what i just told you, your choice if you don't want to accept what i just told you, just shows that you don't like something being told to you that is against Bulgarians. My grandfather wasn't the only one, other Macedonians were brutally killed by Bulgarians, killed like you would kill an animal. I guess Communism settled you people down didn't it?
dejan I'm glad it's a moving story, i have more of my Grandfather who was nearly killed when he had to leave Tetovo during WWII because of the Albanian ballists? But if you like, i'll save that for another time, story telling is over for you mister! That's the sad thing great macedonian, they're taught from young to hate us, where as we are not taght like that. I never remember my parents telling me about Greeks and Bulgarians. It just shows how other races (in this case, Bulgars and Greeks) are afraid of another country history, so they have to drill the whole idea of Macedonians don't exist into their little vulnerable heads, which stays with them forever, and they never find out the truth, because they'll deny it, but that's their misfortune, not ours. [:)]
Great_Macedonian What nationality are you Saturn? Bulgarian? Ok let me get one thing straight, first of all Identity has alot to do with History, because without history u cannot have an identity. In other words, identity is based on history. Your turnning this whole topic into a language debate. Macedonian and Bulgarian languages are simmilar, but i still struggle to understand bulgarian, whereas i can understand serbian alot easier. Maybe this has much to do with the fact that Republic of Macedonia was under Yugoslavia for so long. Yeah i live in Australia, but that doesnt mean that i am any more of a macedonian than someone living in macedonia. My whole argument on this topic is not to argue about who the macedonians are close to, my whole argument is to say that we have ancient macedonian blood in us, and nobody can deny us this or our milleniums long history. The language or dialect you speak does not have much to do with identity either. If your trying to tell me that since macedonian and bulgarian languages are simmilar, they are the same peoples?? then your wrong. The irish tend to speak mainly english, however they have nothing in common with england. Portuguese and spanish are very simmilar, it doesnt mean that they have the same identity or background. The scandinavian countries speak simmilar languages but they all have their seperate identities. What wikipedia is trying to do is potray the macedonians as foreign peoples to the macedonian lands. You cannot argue this, since only a month ago they stated that macedonians are decendents of ancient macedonians, whereas now they have re-written the text and said we are bulgar decendents!??? First of all, tell me this, as wikipedia states in its text that we are decendents of slavs,thracians,illirians and bulgars???? tell me how can they link todays macedonians to almost every ancient tribe which lived on the balkans,except with the ancient macedonians?? they do this out of clear anti-macedonian propaganda, aimed to destroy our macedonian identity. First of all, lets concentrate on the Illyrians: they lived on current albanian,montenegrin and croatian lands, the albanians infact claim to be Illyrian, and i very much doubt that todays macedonians have anything in common with Illyrians of ancient times. So thats the first bullshit that wikipedia wrote. The second thing they wrote is that we are decendents of the Thracians? Since ive barely ever heard such a claim before i cannot comment much on this claim, however though the thracians lived close to the ancient macedonians, so there could be some truth in this. Since wikipedia can claim this, its rediculious for them not to mention, or in this case, to wipe out the fact that we also have ancient macedonian roots. As for the slav heritage, im only going to state that its over exagurated, meaning that slavs came to macedonia, but that doesnt make macedonians a slavic peoples, since the slavs were only one of many tribes who mixed with the ancient macedonians.
Great_Macedonian ...and the fact that wikipedia has no linked the macedonians to "the bulgar tribes" is pure anti-macedonian propaganda.
Great_Macedonian no=now
Divider Povtrono imame tatarski propagandisti na forumive. Nikako da naucat deka ili se ttari, sledstveno treba kako takvi da se deklariraat ili se neosvesteni makedonci, sledstveno na nas e da im odbieme na glupost i da gi osvestime. Great, neka ne ti drma plovak. Wikipedia e ionaka zanikade, biased. Batali, sto ne ne ubiva ne cini posilni.
Great_Macedonian Saturn does Vancho Mihailov ring a bell?? Everybody knows he burned macedonians in pirin and the rest of bulgaria.
dejan Are you avoiding great macedonians question on purpose? So you think that i made this up? so i guess my relatives back then, just saw my grandfather vanish into the air? No need to accept what i tell you, if you don't like accepting true Bulgarian history......i wonder if what the Bulgarians really did in Macedonia is taught through out Bulgarian schools?
dejan You know the Lebanese people, i think they have a similar problem not so big. I was watching this documentary about beirute, and some girls were talking, and one girl was talking about how she was proud or something along those lines, about her Phoenician roots, and this other girl rounded on her, and started to say that that is wrong, we're arabs.... Any people have a right to themselves what they believe they are, we Macedonians believe we are Macedonians. I'm sure Egyptians believe they are Egyptians. I haven't read all that you've written here Saturn, but i hope you were not suggesting that we are Bulgars. My great great great grandfather was taken away by the Bulgarians when he refused to succumb to their propaganda and call himself a Bulgarian.
Great_Macedonian Gledam i zosto se odlucile vakva laga da napisat. Zasto ako ostanese delot..' are said to be the descendents of ancient Macedonian..(tribe)'.. togas sekoj koj ke go cita toa ke znaese deka nie nesme macedonian slavs tuku macedonians! i deka imame sekakvo pravo da go barame naseto potomstvo vo anticka makedonija! No jas nikogas ne se predavam od napred, isto kako so slucajot za topikot "skopje.mk lazna istorija" koga iniciravme da se popravi edna istoriska napisana greska, vo sto bevne uspesni.. veruvam deka i ovoj pat makedonci brajka i sestri ke mi pomognete wikipedia da go bombardirame so email protesti!!!
wolf_pack Great_Macedonian jas imam odeno na diskusija so Wikipedia Administrators i stvarno e shteta shto ovaka reshile. Ti da vidish kolkav argument ima samo za koristenje na imeto Republic of Macedonia. Eden nash makedonec, chlen od administracijata mislam, kulturno se izrazuvashe i probashe da gi natera drugite da glasat kako toj im veleshe. A pa eden grk, samo pishuvashe kako toj e platen agent na VMRO, i shiri "false" propaganda i kako nie "Skopiani" nema da ja valkame Severna Grcija i trista gluposti. Grkov treba da go shamarime drugari, kade i da e, uvek ni prai vaka.
dejan i taka ne ja sakam wikipedia. a tie grcite, toj narod treba da se zasrami! they should be ashamed! sve sto ni napravile, da se zasramat! da se zasramat na taa iskrivena istorija sto ja imat! ama ima gospod i on sve gleda. ne gledam drug narod sto treba da se zasrami za sve sto ni napravile i sve sto ni pravat sega. oni trebat da ni se izvinat skros!
dejan neznaev deka mozes da smenis sto sakas na toj sajt, lele kolku e krap. probav jas nesto;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Slavs The Macedonians are an ethnic group which inhabits the wider Macedonian region and speaks the Macedonian language. They are generally associated with the Macedonian Orthodox Church and are the descendents of the ancient Macedonians. The Macedonians living in the Republic of Macedonia, as well as the Macedonians living in Greece, Bulgaria and Albania, regard themselves as Macedonians. Each of the three countries has tended to regard the Macedonians as a subset of their own peoples: hence the Serbs regard them as Serbs, the Bulgarians as Bulgarians and the Greeks as Greeks (However, there is no evidence to support this, therefore it is not true). Before and during the Balkan Wars, Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece made an abortive attempt to change the Macedonian people, to force them to call themselves either a Serb, Bulgar or Greek, this completely failed, and this is why those countries do not want to recognised the Macedonians. After the Balkan Wars, the Macedonians from northeastern Greece were forcefully resettled in Bulgaria (as the Greeks were going on a ravaging rampage, killing any Macedonian who stood in his way, and also burning many villages, including the city of Thessaloniki known as Solun by the Macedonians), whereas those living in north-western Greece came under severe pressure (the pressure resulted in major genocides commited agains the Macedonians, somthing which the Greeks refuse to believe), especially after the Greek-Turkish population exchanges of the 1920s, with many forced to leave the country and emigrate, for the most part, to Canada and Australia. For many years, the Greek government denied their existence as a national minority and many of the border villages were closed to outsiders, ostensibly for security reasons.
Misirkov Wikipedia writes just about whatever the political pull at the moment calls for. What is said above about "Macedonian Slavs" is out of control, and the presented "information" speaks more about Wikipedia as a "source". One should always be sceptical of encyclopedias anyway because they are the "colelcted wisdom" od states -- and now of various quarters within states with all sorts of agendas and little regard for truth.
dejan Well i was just testing some things Saturn. Well for one particular group of people, they are Macedonians.
Great_Macedonian Dejan we are what we say we are.. tell that to Saturn. I will use what my dad has to say referring to our identity.. "I am Macedonian, thats all i know, so when i speak of my roots, i speak of my macedonian heritage, going all the way back to ancient macedonia, so i regard myself as a decendant of the ancient macedonians, and i dont care who else mixed with the macedonians, because nobody can show me evidence that my family ISNT of ancient macedonain origin". And he is pretty much right.. why do we constantly have to prove our identity to brainwashed nationalists from all sorts of countries?? wikipedia is a stinky website, i wouldnt call it a encyclopedia, as you may have noticed, they write whatever the majority of assholes on their forums tell them to write. Since the greeks are all over the internet, and they are alot better organised then us macedonians, their bullshit about macedonia gets posted up on websites everywhere, while our facts are not taken into account.. mainly because we as a peoples are unorganised, we are unwilling or havent the fonds to bribe them like the greeks do, and the greek stinky lobby is one of the most powerfull in the world. And im sick of hearing that crap about "slavic speaking".. "slavMacedonians".. Saturn its a whole load of shit. If this is all true then tell me why not one person, not a single soul has ever stated in a census anywhere in the world that they are "slav-macedonian".. but MACEDONIAN. The so called "slav language" of todays macedonians is controversual itself.. i wouldnt even call it a slav language. First of all its a knowen fact that macedonian is the least slavic of all the slavic languages. Second of all, i have my sources for this, but todays macedonian language is a 'reformatted-updated' version of ancient macedonian. Just like todays greek language is not the same as ancient greek.. but that doesnt stop those bastards from claiming the whole balkan history as their own. I hope the albanians take Chameria from them.. then we can take our macedonia back from them.. and put them back where they belong, south of mt. olympus.
Great_Macedonian If your intent was to prove that balkan people have many things in common with eachother, then i agree with you. As for the bulgars settling Bitola region... i dont think so, maybe your referring to some bulgarian source. I donno what your trying to prove with all that stuff you wrote, for some things your right and for some things your not.. like, i dont need wikipedia to tell me what i am and who i am. The whole point of my topic was about the macedonian identity. And for us to determine the macedonian identity, we need to look at our HISTORY ok?! Now, You tell me this if your so wise.. Why would wikipedia wipe out the part that states todays macedonians have decent from ancient macedonians, and then change that with bulgars?? you think macedonians dont know what thats all about?? its bulgarian and greek propaganda, to dissown us from our native macedonian land and prevent us from claiming our macedonian history and identity.
Great_Macedonian Saturn remove your ugly insulting post directed towards Slasa, or you will be sorry!
mikael great-macedon-bojan 81 ovde nema moderator ,,on mora da e bugarofil
Great_Macedonian neznam..
Great_Macedonian Go ask your Bulgarian friends if they have heard of Vanco Mihailov, who he was, what he did.. ull find out. Saturn listen man, (or women) why do u bulgarians have to constantly twist macedonian history? thats all i wanna know. Why those it hurt you so much to just accept that macedonians never were bulgarian... One thing bulgarians and greeks have in common is how they are taught to deny macedonians their identity from early childhood.
bojan81 @Saturn, moze li da go izbrisis potpisot ti ili neka moderatorite ti go izbrisat zosto ti si bugar zvani tataroman, pa ne se razbiras od zbor i ne moze nisto da se vidi od tvojte manijacka opsesija so tose. P.S. Saturn, bugarite ne se tatari, so sila se pravite tatari so cel da ja prikazat posebnosta od drugite balkanski narodi, so sto predizvikuvate smea vo site isotorisko naucni krugovi na balkanot veruvajmi [;)] a vo posledno vreme i medju obicnoto naselenie.
n/a i have a question. if today's macedonians are considered ethnic macedonians then what were their ancestors (grandparents, great-grandparents) considered? up untill the entry of yugoslavia, what kind of government did macedonia have? was there such a country known as macedonia? did it have a president, king, parliament? it is extremely difficult to find answers to questions like that, if not, impossible....why?
Great_Macedonian Zeleno.. zelen vo glata, let me tell you this. Macedonia has existed for 3000thousand years. How long has Bulgaria existed??? Macedonia was occupied by the Turks until 1913, it still existed within the ottoman empire, it still had a macedonian ethnicity within the ottoman empire, it was just occupied like the other balkan nations were. In 1913 it was devided amongst its neighbours, macedonia was cut in pieces but the macedonians still existed like they do today. Im gona save myself the trouble of trying to teach another bulgar about macedonian history, and direct you to go to www.historyofmacedonia.org whatever you want to know abou the macedonians you will find out there.
silijeski е,бре луѓе,со Сатурн се расправате,кој врска нема од животот.Пишува само за да се најде во муабет.Баталете ги татариштава....
Great_Macedonian Abe dosadni se ko muvi ama ne beget taka lesno.
n/a NE ZNAEH CHE MAKEDONCITE IMAT POTEKLO NIE V BULGARIA ZNEME CHE SA POMIARI BEZ MINALO I BADESHTE ;)
Bicho
quote:
Originally posted by ATILA
NE ZNAEH CHE MAKEDONCITE IMAT POTEKLO NIE V BULGARIA ZNEME CHE SA POMIARI BEZ MINALO I BADESHTE ;)
Tuka se skri be mongol? Sho misleshe nema da te najdam be chuvash! I zashto be ne zbroish na rodniot ti turski jazik, tuku nekakov izvitoperen Makedonski upotrebuvash?
Great_Macedonian jas ne go razbrav sto napisa. lol
Misirkov http://forums.vmacedonia.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8471
dejan ej dali nekoj go znae ovoj sajt? http://www.macedoniainfo.cоm/ bugarite se cudni...........